Controller Mode?

Actually, there are several polls. I don't believe Controller Mode has cracked the top 5 of any poll. I specifically said a Controller Mode is a good idea in this very thread.

As far as 'problems' with mapping the Ren as currently designed, I can show you how.

JAH wrote:Actually, there are several polls. I don't believe Controller Mode has cracked the top 5 of any poll. I specifically said a Controller Mode is a good idea in this very thread.

As far as 'problems' with mapping the Ren as currently designed, I can show you how.

Yes you did Jah

Im very much hoping to see this in 1.5

potential best controller on the market full stop should be let loose im not having a go tho becuase NI did not even have it in 1.4 I think it was actually 1.5 they brought it in either way it wasnt there from the start


even you Jah I can guarantee when you get to play with the Ren in these modes you will see exactly how much potential and speed of work flow and flexibility you now have and why its so important to have it and how many more people now want and go get a Ren


Its only setup up once and then its toggles

AyePee wrote:..even you Jah I can guarantee when you get to play with the Ren in these modes you will see exactly how much potential and speed of work flow and flexibility you now have and why its so important to have it and how many more people now want and go get a Ren


Its only setup up once and then its toggles

This is the conversation I was hoping to have. Like what specifically do forum members want in such a control mode outside of a super MPD?

As of 1.4, we have 96 Qlinks for each plugin. When can do this when hosting a plugin within the MPC software. Or we can do this with plugins hosted within the DAW when using MIDI Tracks within the MPC plugin. The same goes for MIDI external instruments. The only thing I find immediately missing is that I want to rename params and have them displayed on the Ren/Studio's LCD. The key thing for me is that these MIDI Progams can be saved as templates.

So any MIDI Mode added must have the same type of flexibility. I was trying to use Maschine in Controller Mode but didn't find it as intuitive as using MIDI Tracks on the Ren.

controller mode is important to record the notes in the daw directly.
when i make a song and have audio recordings i want to use only 1 sequencer to cut my notes and make an complete arragement.
it is most comfortable to cut notes and make an arrangement in the daw.
you have all integrated in one thing.

a,software instruments(Battery, MPC , Kontakt ect)
b,audio recordings like singer ect
c, mixing with plug ins software instruments and audio.
d,Bus routing and FX like Reverb etc
e,output managing with more analog outputs for analog summing.

like my metric halo uln-8 and lio-8 to dangerous 2-bus summing.

i have my daw logic x now and why i must use 2 sequencer?

as standalone it is perfect to have a sequencer in the akai ren software.
but in the plug-in for the daw it must be possible to turn off the sequencer and to record directly in my daw.

look i'm using logic x and i open the plug in as multi out 8.
then i make 7 aux output and then i route all sounds seperate to the aux bus.
i make the channels to the arrangement and now i see all the mpc track in logic and when i make an track stack , it is perfect to make music.

but the point is that i cannot record my notes
and why we have 16 pads and only multi out 8? not 16 pads and multi out 16?

i think it is not so much stress to make a switch in the plug in that deactivating the internal sequencer and then you can play thru the plug in in the daw.
i can now use the battery plug in and it works...
yes....the mpc ren is sending midi for battery and you can record this.

for me the mpc plug in is very good to see my samples, make new samples, chopping , qlink ect...perfect.

but for recording notes...sorry my daw is better for that.

The main thing being that once you set it up its done no more setup

with the current setup you have to do it each time and map things but with a controller mode you have instant mapping as its already setup and you just toggle and use as you want

the way it is now you (well I do) just avoid its because the last thing you wanna do mid creative flow is start setting things up that by the time you have ideas can be gone


Someone in my family has an maschine and he switches in and out of control mode at will if he wants to control a plugin he doesnt set anything up or need and extra track to trigger it from

I dont think the current way it works as a controller can be compared to any other controller maschine,mpd or anything like that as you just set them up once and thats it and can use them with a toggle in the case of maschine and you dont need and extra midi track to use it from

AyePee wrote:The main thing being that once you set it up its done no more setup

with the current setup you have to do it each time and map things but with a controller mode you have instant mapping as its already setup and you just toggle and use as you want

the way it is now you (well I do) just avoid its because the last thing you wanna do mid creative flow is start setting things up that by the time you have ideas can be gone


Someone in my family has an maschine and he switches in and out of control mode at will if he wants to control a plugin he doesnt set anything up or need and extra track to trigger it from

I dont think the current way it works as a controller can be compared to any other controller maschine,mpd or anything like that as you just set them up once and thats it and can use them with a toggle in the case of maschine and you dont need and extra midi track to use it from

MIDI Programs in the MPC Software can be saved as presets. You only have to set them up once contrary to what you described above. But you must use a MIDI track. Creating an actual MIDI track is done in a fraction of a second.

But we agree on a MIDI Mode. But what type of functionality it has is the most important aspect. As it stands, the MPC Software can map up to 96 Qlinks to params of a plugin. What would a dedicated mode do better in this aspect?

With Maschine, once you are in MIDI control mode, you have to take a bunch of extra steps using your mouse just to be able to trigger its own sound...something like foolin around with a 'batch to MIDI' function. Why not have a controller mode where you can immediately trigger sounds from within Maschine or MPC Software?

my only wish is to record notes in my DAW ...its a big step.
then more then using only one mpc plug in.

one Mpc plug-in for drums with 16 aux outputs for each pad and another to use for normal instruments to play with my keyboard.

perfect

Im astounded how you have managed to make the mpc current mode look and seem better than An actual controller mode or anyway near as efficient

NOBODY wants to use a midi track each time they do this we just want a dedicated controller mode come on JAH even If I have to load up a midi track then a preset that is not what you have to do in controller mode


If you don't know how to use the maschine controller mode then I can understand you not knowing its value but just look at the people saying so and not just here in the that landslide poll

the purely sample based heads will have not much care about this but there are not just sample heads using the Ren Im both and when I want to control an mpd or the mashine would be the best way right now the current setup just horrid and does not invite you to use it it does the exact opposite

The way it is now you have to load up the mpc plugin make your mapping then save that as a preset...seriously for all my plugins and effects? this is beyond overkill and has no logic when you have a current controller mode that does everything in that mode



In Controller mode you can control what you choose to and dont need to make a presets for all your plugins and all your effects


Ive asked a friend who is a maschine user to wade in which he is going to



CONTROLLER MODE

functions would need to be exactly like maschines or an mpd

Pgm goes to midi so that would mean letting it out of the software
and you do not need a midi track or the mpc plugin loaded up

If you want to control 3 things right now...

you cant have 3 plugins up so you would need to make 3 presets and switch between the presets to control your 3 different things that is anti work flow and not flexible at all

Imagine this with over 100 plugins and effects your just not gonna do it

controller mode instant mapping of unlimited amount of effects and plugins without mpc plugin loaded up

like if it had that now

I would only need to bring my plugin effect up on screen and its instantly controlling whatever is on screen the mapping auto you don't need to think about it unless you want to personalize the mappings and that is easy as you have programs or set it up in terms of mapping anything when I mean setup I mean install and activate not make mapping or anything just the way you do with mashine & mpd by selecting them as a control surface in your daw

NI have controller editor so you can remap your midi cc's into anything you like so you you can personalize it much more

give the ren this power and you truly have a beast of a controller and the very best on the market you could openly advertise as the best controller because that would be true because nothing comes close to the amount of control on one surface you could have with the Ren

the maschine cant add extra buttons so it would not even compare

Add that to what it already does and you simply blow your competition out of the water

The Ren definately needs a dedicated controller mode in my opinion. at the moment using it without the software it still transmits midi when moving controllers and pressing buttons etc. how hard would it really be to design a pc editor where you can alter the midi cc's to a user defined one? for example 74 cutoff. absolute and relative controller options? and im not saying that it can be acheived over night either. Jah point taken that the Ren is a dedicated MPC controller but in the real world we all use at least one other main DAW and having control over them also is important in our music making process, we dont want to have to move to another midi controller to control a vst when we are sitting in front of a midi controller, what im saying is a simple midi mode could be accessed on the REN by pressing lets say shift+erase and a midi editor designed that enabled us to change the midi cc's to our specification.

0db wrote:how hard would it really be to design a pc editor where you can alter the midi cc's to a user defined one? for example 74 cutoff. absolute and relative controller options?

go one step further and edit it while in midi controller mode.. You can edit the midi settings/mapping without the need to have external editor... .. Comes in handy if your working with some hardware gear too.. I'd also love the pads to do cc aswell as notes... (so i can trigger some other gear which only recieves midi cc )

each pad should have a midi page in prog edit mode .. So that you can assign what it does in terms of midi... For instance..

i have a drum sample pgm with a drum kick loaded onto pad one... In prog edit i can jump into the midi page and also tell that pad to output a midi note to the daw or selected output port. Or it can send a cc message .. OR the pads after touch can send aftertouch midi to a daw or hardware port to control another effect or parameter inside the daw.. This could be options just for output from the pad.. You could also have input settings aswell..(daw midi can send back to mpc vst plugin pad.)

This controller has crazy potential in terms of midi and intergration with other daws /hardware gear ..

I don't need to look at a landslide poll. I've acknowledged numerous times I get the point and agree about a controller mode for the MPC Software (sigh). I just don't believe the way it is implemented in Maschine is all that it is cracked up to be in a typical application:
1. Insert Maschine VST/AU on a DAW Instrument Track
2. Load up a drum kit within Maschine
3. Put Maschine in Controller Mode
4. Strike Maschine's pads
5. *Note that Maschine's pads do not trigger the drum kit

Perhaps I am using Maschine's Controller Mode the wrong way. But there is a video in this very thread that shows you must take extra steps in order to trigger Maschine's own sounds while in Controller Mode. If this is inaccurate, please clarify as I am not trying to mislead anyone.

To wrap this up....

Maschine's Controller Mode vs MIDI mapping capabilities of the Ren's MPC Software

The MPC Software has 128 pads, 96 Qlinks, and a transport can be mapped to control any hardware/software app. Specifically...what can Maschine's Controller Mode do that you can't do using a MIDI Track in the MPC software?

you have it wrong Jah

you dont need to load maschine up for controller mode and you can send pads to midi notes with the option on right click

so if you just wanted controller mode you wouldn't load up maschine and if you wanted to play maschine's kit you wouldn't activate controller mode

"*Note that Maschine's pads do not trigger the drum kit"

That's the whole point of a separate toggle enabled mode. To be able to have extensive MIDI controller separate from what you are doing in the main Maschine software or potentially the Renaissance were something similar implemented.

It is not inaccurate that it takes extra steps to trigger the internal pads/sounds in the main software. But most don't mind because controlling things with out external/internal things triggering at the same time is the very reason they want a switchable mode.

Many feel having both a separate method, even if it requires making/saving some go to mappings offline to load in the session in addition to any MIDI mapping capabilities that can used concurrently to the main app (Maschine software, theoretically Ren software in this discussion) is maximum options to cover all situations and individual workflows.

It's like the mixer stuff in Ren, why not provide both options if possible, and people will use whichever one suits the situation or personal workflow.

It's as simple as people wanting the options. On Maschine I can do my internal stuff, then I might decide I want to to control this VST hosted on an Ableton track totally separate from my internal Maschine hosted stuff and samples.

I toggle then I load a map I've made for the VST in Live (or just make the assignments on the spot), do what I want, then toggle back into Maschine where I left off. Or the map I toggle to in the separate mode could even be for external hardware. Because the maps are 100% definable and operate separate from the main software/MIDI and you can make and save as many as you like. And the editor app provides a nice clean method to create maps very quickly.

No one is saying you can't do some MIDI mapping from within the Ren software/environment. Just that having a second option independent from the Ren's MIDI tracks in many cases would just be more easy and certainly more flexible in many cases.

well for one Jah on the ren you need to setup a preset for each plugin then switch it per plugin just having to create them is enough to not want to when your in the middle of a song

controller mode you don't have do this even once for any plugin its automatic like any other controller/control surface

you cant sent pgm to midi notes and controller mode is not maschines its the same mode mpd mackie controllers ect uses and countless others so even though its called controller mode

its the profile for the control surfaces that use midi like the mpd and the ren but the ren has no profile for your daw so all the benefits of a controller mode cant be used

Noted. Maschine offers:

1. Dedicated controller mode
2. Can use controller without loading Maschine DAW

Is that the only advantages over the MPC Software capabilities? What improvements can be made to Maschine's controller mode?

When Maschine is used as a plugin and then you switch to controller mode, why doesn't the pads trigger its drum kits without taking additional steps? Using Maschine's controller mode, don't you have to create presets as well? It certainly doesn't have a preset for ever plugin on the market, right?