MPC3000 with TR-909

I just got a TR-909 and experimenting with ways to sync it with my MPC 3000.

Obvious way for me is to play the TR-909 sounds through my MPC 3000's drum pad, the only issue is creating the flam effect. Not a huge loss, but still, it can help create a nice little shuffle and would be sad to loose it or go through an arduous path to recreate the flam effect.

The second way would be to sync out of my MPC3000 to start/stop the drums pattern on the TR-909. This version would seem easier as I can use the 16-step sequencer and use the flam function.

Has anyone else here have any experience with syncing up these two devices?

Thanks

I wish man! I love the sound of the 909

dstrnts wrote:I just got a TR-909 and experimenting with ways to sync it with my MPC 3000.

Obvious way for me is to play the TR-909 sounds through my MPC 3000's drum pad, the only issue is creating the flam effect.

That's not syncing , it's triggering and if you want to create flams you'd do it from the sequencer (MPC3000 in your case)

dstrnts wrote:The second way would be to sync out of my MPC3000 to start/stop the drums pattern on the TR-909.

That's what's known as sync as you are synchronizing 2 sequencers.
The only way to do it with the MPC3000 and 909 is the method you have used.

You could reverse ithings and have the 909 send MIDI clock to the MPC and/or notes to trigger some of it's sounds but your still doing the same things.

So that's your options for using the MPC and 909 together. It's pretty simple and there is nothing your missing. You already had it figured out.

Should be pretty obvious, you got the 909 to be a 909 so use it as a. 909.

IMHO the SP, 808 and 909 have a sound but they also have a workflow.
The workflow is just as much a part of it's nature as the sound so if you get one of them use the box as the box and just sync it up.

At least you are talking about a 909, the 808 makes you go CV/gate if you don't have an expensive MIDI kit installed.

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.

That's the word I was looking for, triggering. Thanks. I was having a brain fart from the lack of sleep the pass few days.

Yeh, I thought about using the 909's MIDI clock out, but read that it moots the purpose of the MPC, which I agree. But that's not to say that it isn't a valid approach.

If the two ways I had it is the way to go, then perfect. I figure if I really want the flam, I'll just send MIDI out from my MPC to start/stop the 909.

Otherwise, I'll just stick with my standard process of triggering the 909 from my MPC drum pads.

I wanted to see if I was missing another viable option.

Cheers!

Depends I guess on the style of music and how much of a part the 909 plays in the beats.

I might go with the 909 as a MIDI Clock master for the MPC.

Might be worth testing them out in different configurations, triggering 909 from MPC, as well as syncing both directions, to see if you can hear any timing differences between them.

I'm making mostly house/techno. None of which requires any sampling from my MPC. I've been using it mostly to slave all my other gear.

I mean, I do sample from time to time for vocals, if i can't chain anymore or want a sound to get that MPC3000 sample sound. But I meant overall, I wouldn't miss it.

I know I can also trigger other external instruments from the 909. I'm not sure how extensive the 909 is when it comes to that job. When I get around to it, I'll let you guys know.

In the end, I just want my gears that are slaved through the MPC to be firing tight with the 909.

I would run the 909 as the master, so that it's timing is as tight as possible, and sync the MPC to the 909 via MIDI Beat Clock, with the other instruments still being triggered by the MPC.

But, you can do it whatever way it works for you, that is why I would test it to see if I could hear any differences in the timing.

For example a 4/4 kick and hihat pattern might sound tighter if sequenced in the 909 sequencer itself, rather than the 909 sounds being triggered from the MPC sequencer over MIDI.

I think what you suggested is the best approach.

I was also wondering what you guys think about the MSQ-700? Bare with me. My mind is just too curious.

Since I don't really use samples, and in the event if I don't use my MPC as master, I've been giving some thought on the MSQ-700.

Does anyone have any experience with the MSQ-700?

ntalec wrote:... the 808 makes you go CV/gate if you don't have an expensive MIDI kit installed.

Nah. You just need a MIDI->Sync 24 box.

I go MPC3000 -> Kenton Pro 4 Sync 24 -> TR808 & TR606.

By the way, I thought I would post some results from my recent experiments between the TR-909 and MPC 3000.


Triggering the TR-909 sounds with the MPC 3000 pads:
Sounds amazing. I don't think it loses a thing when it comes to sound. One of the most amazing thing about the TR-909 is it's ability to make a kick and cymbal sound like a drummer's stab, rather than some sampler triggering two samples at the same time. Using the MPC 3000 pad to trigger this sound combo looses nothing. So far, it sounds really tight.

The MPC 3000 swing works very well with the TR-909. Honestly this part just comes down to personal taste of swing, while some want to stay pure with the TR-909 providing it's own swing, others might like using the MPC 3000's swing. MAW often talked about the early days, where they would use a swing from one machine and sounds from another machine to create something more unique, often leading other musicians interrogating them for information on how they accomplished unique sounds.

Pros: Fun to jam. More live feeling triggering the TR-909 sounds with the MPC pad, if that's what you want. No lost of sound quality. Sounds equally tight to programming a sequence within the TR-909. Easier to trigger accents with pad velocity. Flam can be recreated by using the 'note repeat' function with varied pressure on the pad.

Cons: You might lose a little of the surprise factor by not programming on the step sequencer. Though sometimes it's easier to play the drum part on the pad, the step sequencer allows us to experiment with the placement of sounds.


Start/Stop a TR-909 sequence from the MPC 3000:
I haven't tried this yet. Will let you know.


Using TR-909 midiclock into the MPC 3000:
Works, but it did some funky stuff to the other external gears firing from the MPC 3000. Not sure if this has anything to do with the ROM version, as I'm still running ROM Version 1.

I will experiment with this more and get back to you.

jimmie wrote:

ntalec wrote:... the 808 makes you go CV/gate if you don't have an expensive MIDI kit installed.

Nah. You just need a MIDI->Sync 24 box.

I go MPC3000 -> Kenton Pro 4 Sync 24 -> TR808 & TR606.

I meant the MIDI kit to trigger the 808 sounds not to trigger the unit.

Remember Kenton got all of use back in the 90s who had a Juno60 or 808 since they had the reliable products.

You could trigger the unit many different ways but having one with the MIDI kit is the truly functional way.

dstrnts wrote:I know I can also trigger other external instruments from the 909. I'm not sure how extensive the 909 is when it comes to that job. When I get around to it, I'll let you guys know.
.

Thanks, but we already know sequencing external instruments from the 909 is quite limited.

dstrnts wrote:
Pros: Fun to jam. More live feeling triggering the TR-909 sounds with the MPC pad, if that's what you want. No lost of sound quality. Sounds equally tight to programming a sequence within the TR-909. .

Your not listening closely enough.
Stack 4 or 5 sounds with the 909s sequencer and listen to it.
Now make the same pattern on the MPC and have it trigger the same sounds on the 909 using MIDI.
Give each instrument it's own track on the MPC.
Mute all but one track on the MPC ,press play and as you listen unmute the sounds one by one.

What you'll notice is that when your stacking sounds over MIDI you'll perceive a change in pitch as the sounds get spread out .
By the time you've added your 4th or 5th note you'll be getting flams/phasing issues.
This does not happen when using the 909s internal sequencer and it's unavoidable when using MIDI to trigger more than one sound at a time.
It's not just the 909 that does this, all instruments will do it when sequenced with MIDI

The change in pitch is actually a change in time but because it's so small your brain perceives it as a change in pitch.

Acid Mitch wrote:It's not just the 909 that does this, all instruments will do it when sequenced with MIDI

Including the internal MPC3000 drum sampler.

Definitely use the TR909's sequencer, it's just too good not to use. And as Acid Mitch says, you won't get that unpleasant 'flam' type effect where the 909 is trying to trigger the same sound more than once, at the same time. 909 internal sequencer is the way to go.

A suggestion though. There's a known issue when using the 909 as a MIDI slave. I found that when you use the 909 as a MIDI slave, the timing can slip a bit, and after a few minutes the 909 can be lagging behind - just a little, maybe 1/32nd note over 10 minutes - but it's bad enough. This does not always happen, it seems to depend what machine is sending the master clock signal - I really can't say if the MPC3000 / TR909 combo is affected in this way, I don't have an MPC3000

But - the 909 will also slave to DIN SYNC, and it does this beautifully and perfectly every time. I use a Roland MSQ100 as a MIDI clock - DIN SYNC converter and it does a great job. I believe the MSQ-700 will do this too. And you can pick up those excellent little MIDI to DIN SYNC converter boxes that just do that one thing, and do it very well.

So you would set it up like:
MPC3000 > MIDI/SYNC converter > TR909

The timing using this method is absolutely rock solid every time. And you could put a TR606/808/303 etc in there too, depending on how many DIN SYNC outputs the converter has.

It works just the same - and it's perfection every time.