video rant Ren vs Maschine Studio what do u think?

m:t:c wrote:
nope, check out some pics here: http://instagram.com/maschinetutorials
for the older controllers it looks just as tightly integrated as one could hope for

Those are the images that make me say that I think going for the Studio makes more sense than adding v2 to my Maschine.

As I said NI need to be showing v2 in action on the older hardware to give a more hopeful perspective.

Coz wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:Not exactly! Something about the MPC just knows exactly where you meant to put a note when you play an off note while quantize is on. Sometimes Maschine doesn't put the note where you intended.

I meant in relation to what peterpiper was asking. In other words, if you hard quantize to the quarter note so your kicks are on the 1 and 3 and snares on the 2 and 4 there will be no timing difference between the two. There's certainly no drift or sloppiness like the dude in the video is claiming.

That's what I'm talking about. If you have the quantize set hard to the quarter note on Maschine and you play loose, it's gonna feel really weird because it's quantizing while you're hitting the pads. And like I said, when you play loose with quantize on, sometimes Maschine doesn't put the note where you intended it to be! So it does give a different feel. The dude in the video is very accurate. People that don't quantize their music likely won't have this complaint with Maschine.

DJ Hellfire wrote:That's what I'm talking about. If you have the quantize set hard to the quarter note on Maschine and you play loose, it's gonna feel really weird because it's quantizing while you're hitting the pads.

I'm not talking about playing loose but I know exactly what you're saying. I was commenting on the overall timing of the sequencer and perceived 'slop' which probably doesn't exist. The issues all revolve around a funky implementation of quantize and swing.

If there's genuine timing anomalies in the code it could be tested with the Litmus Test.


http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... itmus.html

The problem is that sequencer have different perspectives on what a note is and how it's placed.
They have no true grid for placement it's more a reference to other notes.
This is really where the aspect of off feeling sequencers comes in.
The distance between 4 hard 1/4 notes will be slightly different, not enough to not feel like a 1/4 note but enough that in the grand scheme of laying down a pattern it shows it's personality.
The more fluid you program the more you will notice it.
Throw in some shuffle or swing and it expands the variation even more.

Every sequencer has some level of slop is just based on the way it calculates but the thing is it's user dependent on how much you notice if you notice at all.

Maschine has ways to turn off the record or playback quantize but it's kinda confusing compared to how most sequencers work.
Having the wrong quantize on and the wrong resolution setting is a nightmare on Maschine.
Maschine is probably the only sequencer I have met where you have to set for 32 or 64 to program things that most sequencers handle at 16.
After a while you find yourself using "OFF" more than any other setting.

ntalec wrote:Every sequencer has some level of slop is just based on the way it calculates but the thing is it's user dependent on how much you notice if you notice at all.

Slop can and should be measured, preferably by more than one person using different systems. Notes being pushed and pulled onto a grid with quantize is a slightly different issue.

In the case of Maschine, it'd be interesting to know how it currently performs in relation to the forthcoming version 2.0 update.

ntalec wrote:After a while you find yourself using "OFF" more than any other setting.

Ditching the stabilisers is a good thing.

Personally I think the sequencer will probably still be the same doubt they will be getting my $99 this year.

Maybe in the spring, maybe not even then.

Coz wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:That's what I'm talking about. If you have the quantize set hard to the quarter note on Maschine and you play loose, it's gonna feel really weird because it's quantizing while you're hitting the pads.

I'm not talking about playing loose but I know exactly what you're saying. I was commenting on the overall timing of the sequencer and perceived 'slop' which probably doesn't exist. The issues all revolve around a funky implementation of quantize and swing.

If there's genuine timing anomalies in the code it could be tested with the Litmus Test.


http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... itmus.html

I've noticed on occasion with Maschine that sometimes notes don't sound like they hit in the same exact spot on each loop. I've never measured it, but it's wasn't really anything major, but noticeable on occasion. The main difference is in the actual feel of the physical performance.

ntalec wrote:Maschine has ways to turn off the record or playback quantize but it's kinda confusing compared to how most sequencers work.
Having the wrong quantize on and the wrong resolution setting is a nightmare on Maschine.
Maschine is probably the only sequencer I have met where you have to set for 32 or 64 to program things that most sequencers handle at 16.
After a while you find yourself using "OFF" more than any other setting.

Exactly, and this issue is when you turn quantize on record with Maschine, it's literally quantizing while recording, which translates to quantizing WHILE you record/play the notes. And yes, it feels even worse at 1/16.

ntalec wrote:Personally I think the sequencer will probably still be the same doubt they will be getting my $99 this year.

I wouldn't even throw £5 at a product I wasn't happy with.

DJ Hellfire wrote:I've noticed on occasion with Maschine that sometimes notes don't sound like they hit in the same exact spot on each loop. I've never measured it, but it's wasn't really anything major, but noticeable on occasion.

It's that level of randomness that needs ironing out, especially as they're adding more midi ports to the Studio.

DJ Hellfire wrote:If you have the quantize set hard to the quarter note on Maschine and you play loose, it's gonna feel really weird because it's quantizing while you're hitting the pads.

Looks like they've sorted out the input quantize situation.

b-righteous wrote:In 2.0 the input quantize no longer affects live play. The input quantize feature affects the sequencer events only and does not affect what you hear as you play.

Coz wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:If you have the quantize set hard to the quarter note on Maschine and you play loose, it's gonna feel really weird because it's quantizing while you're hitting the pads.

Looks like they've sorted out the input quantize situation.

b-righteous wrote:In 2.0 the input quantize no longer affects live play. The input quantize feature affects the sequencer events only and does not affect what you hear as you play.

Cool! Strange thing is, I've never seen anyone other than myself complain about this specific qwerk! I've never seen anyone ever mention this!

Last few posts deleted. If you lot want this topic staying open then lay off the insults.

Well... the guy(DJ Kay) in the video from the first post now owns a Maschine Studio and says he loves it.

At 0:10 of his latest video(below)... he says he's loving the Maschine Studio. LOL




He's even using a picture of the Maschine Studio as his profile picture on Youtube. LOL

Like I said before....
These dudes are full of garbage,
some gear collectors, who film their opinion,
put it on Youtube....but don't make any real music.
They buy their shit of the benefits of their Youtube channels.

**** em.

peace