1k/2500 vs Renaissance..

DJ Hellfire wrote:

**** wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:IMO, no hardware MPC really compares in the end!

The list of **** you can't do in the Ren that you can do in a hardware MPC is extremely small compared to the list of **** the Ren can do that is impossible in a hardware MPC. Then there's the fact that any hardware MPC feature that the Ren can't do can be added. There aren't gonna be anymore features added to any hardware MPC, and many of the Ren features literally can't be added to any hardware MPC. And this part is not my opinion nor just in defense of the Ren, it's just a fact!

Right... at the same time, I just tell people to find what works for them and use that.

FL doesn't work for me but thousands swear by it. I not going to down it nor them for that, I just ask for the same open mindedness when I say "such and such works for me so I;m sticking with that..."

To the OP, if you have access to each of these, give them a test and go with the one that fits your budget and gives you most of what you you're trying to accomplish. U can't go 100% wrong with either.

**** wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:IMO, no hardware MPC really compares in the end!

MPCTNT wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:
The list of **** you can't do in the Ren that you can do in a hardware MPC is extremely small compared to the list of **** the Ren can do that is impossible in a hardware MPC. Then there's the fact that any hardware MPC feature that the Ren can't do can be added. There aren't gonna be anymore features added to any hardware MPC, and many of the Ren features literally can't be added to any hardware MPC. And this part is not my opinion nor just in defense of the Ren, it's just a fact!

Right... at the same time, I just tell people to find what works for them and use that.

FL doesn't work for me but thousands swear by it. I not going to down it nor them for that, I just ask for the same open mindedness when I say "such and such works for me so I;m sticking with that..."

To the OP, if you have access to each of these, give them a test and go with the one that fits your budget and gives you most of what you you're trying to accomplish. U can't go 100% wrong with either.

Exactly! And it's nothing against hardware MPC's! They are still very capable at making music. It's just that when working with DAW's and other software, they just aren't as efficient. Tracking, mixing, exporting, etc are all chores when using these machines. Even common midi editing is a drag. Everyone's mad about the step editor for example, but that shit takes forever just to edit a simple midi note parameter compared to just doing it with a mouse on the computer. Stopping the entire sequence just to be able to enter the save screen to save the project or even load a sample. Being limited to the built-in MPC effects instead of being able to use 3rd party ones, plus the fact that those effects can only output through channels 1 and 2, making the 8 outs useless when using effects. Small ass amount of RAM. If that's what you call "power" you can keep it!

I'm far away from dissin a product which I haven't even seen on my eyes just curious.. you compare barebone MPC vs Ren + computer but what is the advantage of the Ren over mpc connected thru MIDI to mac/pc with VST enviroment (standalone or DAW) + knob controller?

OK, it's just 1 box opposed to few of them - dedicated soft, audio/midi interface, knobs but beside "all-in-one package" vs "I can choose whatever I want" what is the practical difference or is it just a preference?

I looked a lil thru manual 1.1 but I haven't found straight forward answer: can the Ren record on all midi channels at the same time? or can I plug in another controller and freely assign controls from VST (on few channels) and from Ren track mixer (also few ch) and being able to actually record that on dedicated tracks at the same time not changing tracks or modes/views?

DJ Hellfire wrote:

**** wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:IMO, no hardware MPC really compares in the end!

MPCTNT wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:
The list of **** you can't do in the Ren that you can do in a hardware MPC is extremely small compared to the list of **** the Ren can do that is impossible in a hardware MPC. Then there's the fact that any hardware MPC feature that the Ren can't do can be added. There aren't gonna be anymore features added to any hardware MPC, and many of the Ren features literally can't be added to any hardware MPC. And this part is not my opinion nor just in defense of the Ren, it's just a fact!

Right... at the same time, I just tell people to find what works for them and use that.

FL doesn't work for me but thousands swear by it. I not going to down it nor them for that, I just ask for the same open mindedness when I say "such and such works for me so I;m sticking with that..."

To the OP, if you have access to each of these, give them a test and go with the one that fits your budget and gives you most of what you you're trying to accomplish. U can't go 100% wrong with either.

Exactly! And it's nothing against hardware MPC's! They are still very capable at making music. It's just that when working with DAW's and other software, they just aren't as efficient. Tracking, mixing, exporting, etc are all chores when using these machines. Even common midi editing is a drag. Everyone's mad about the step editor for example, but that **** takes forever just to edit a simple midi note parameter compared to just doing it with a mouse on the computer. Stopping the entire sequence just to be able to enter the save screen to save the project or even load a sample. Being limited to the built-in MPC effects instead of being able to use 3rd party ones, plus the fact that those effects can only output through channels 1 and 2, making the 8 outs useless when using effects. Small ass amount of RAM. If that's what you call "power" you can keep it!

Ironically the things you mention aren't true of the 4k.
We never really understood why Akai went backward in design after they made the 4k.

Then again people complained that the 4k was too much of a MPC when it was out, so maybe Akai thought they needed to go the simplistic route?

I will tell you just a few reasons why I chcoose Ren (In my case Studio) over 1k, 2500, or even my 5k, or any other MPCs I have owned...

Storage: I am not limited in choices of where to store data for samples, nor have to run cable to PC for slow data xfers. (I have a $110 3TB USB drive connect to laptop that I save and load samples to and from) it all runs in ram so drive speed is not an issue.

RAM: 4k nice with 512MB and 5K nice with its 192MB but my limit is now based on the host system and who using a system for pc recording with less than 4GB these days?

Plugins: I rarely used VSTs prior to getting my Studio just a few weeks ago but now it all just works and flows without a gang of midi connections. Along with their digital integration into my projects, instead of sampling into my MPC or playing then into separate tracks of my DAW. (I sold one of my keyboards and used a fraction of the money to buy Komplete, Urban Workstation, and Kork M1 Legacy and haven't missed my keyboard, since I have thouands more sounds than I did.)

Screen: I cannot only speak for myself here but I cannot tell you how many times I would be working on my 5K and say "I wish I could do this on my PC screen and see everything large and in color."

Integration: I can load into my DAW and other apps at the click of a mouse where I was previously only able to play and record with ins and outs, using real time recording for the length of the composition.

Audio Formats: Instead of just wav and snd I can load mp3, flac, etc... without having to open the files on PC, then export to a CF card reader and load into the MPC.

Milage: I got love for hardware but all of them have quite a bit of age on them and regardless of the build quality, age has its effect on everything in time.

These are some of the things for me. For others that say they don't care about that and just want the Ren/Studio to be just like their hardware MPC, I suggest you just keep doing what you do on your current hardware MPC, or other system that is already working for that Heat you're already doing, cause I am not trying to sell anyone on the Ren/Studio. Just stating I enjoy it and hope AKAI will update for as long as feasible.

ntalec wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Exactly! And it's nothing against hardware MPC's! They are still very capable at making music. It's just that when working with DAW's and other software, they just aren't as efficient. Tracking, mixing, exporting, etc are all chores when using these machines. Even common midi editing is a drag. Everyone's mad about the step editor for example, but that **** takes forever just to edit a simple midi note parameter compared to just doing it with a mouse on the computer. Stopping the entire sequence just to be able to enter the save screen to save the project or even load a sample. Being limited to the built-in MPC effects instead of being able to use 3rd party ones, plus the fact that those effects can only output through channels 1 and 2, making the 8 outs useless when using effects. Small ass amount of RAM. If that's what you call "power" you can keep it!

Ironically the things you mention aren't true of the 4k.
We never really understood why Akai went backward in design after they made the 4k.

Then again people complained that the 4k was too much of a MPC when it was out, so maybe Akai thought they needed to go the simplistic route?

Some of the things i mention do apply to the 4k as well. Plus, there seems to be only a handful of 4K users compared to all the other models! People will complain about anything new. In 10 years when the MPC 85000 is out, people will claim the Ren is a beast and it will be a novelty!

I definatley prefer chopping samples on jjos. Much faster and smoother most of the time..
I find i still have better intergration with hardware mpc than ren with my daw..
But that's only because i work very differntly to most peeps.

I dont really like using midi(vsti) at all anymore, because i do alot of audio editing once the stuff is inside reaper... So with jjos i track/play as i go and sequence/arrange inside reaper,plus a mox keyboard for those keyboard sounds and skip the whole tracking process..

I can get that same feel with the ren, But lack of virtual outs is pretty limiting....


It really depends on what you are gonna use in the end.. Lots of virtual midi vstis
or lots of hardware and multitrack audio record into the daw..
If the latter use 1k but if your stay itb the ren...

MPCTNT wrote:I will tell you just a few reasons why I chcoose Ren (In my case Studio) over 1k, 2500, or even my 5k, or any other MPCs I have owned...

Storage: I am not limited in choices of where to store data for samples, nor have to run cable to PC for slow data xfers. (I have a $110 3TB USB drive connect to laptop that I save and load samples to and from) it all runs in ram so drive speed is not an issue.

RAM: 4k nice with 512MB and 5K nice with its 192MB but my limit is now based on the host system and who using a system for pc recording with less than 4GB these days?

Plugins: I rarely used VSTs prior to getting my Studio just a few weeks ago but now it all just works and flows without a gang of midi connections. Along with their digital integration into my projects, instead of sampling into my MPC or playing then into separate tracks of my DAW. (I sold one of my keyboards and used a fraction of the money to buy Komplete, Urban Workstation, and Kork M1 Legacy and haven't missed my keyboard, since I have thouands more sounds than I did.)

Screen: I cannot only speak for myself here but I cannot tell you how many times I would be working on my 5K and say "I wish I could do this on my PC screen and see everything large and in color."

Integration: I can load into my DAW and other apps at the click of a mouse where I was previously only able to play and record with ins and outs, using real time recording for the length of the composition.

Audio Formats: Instead of just wav and snd I can load mp3, flac, etc... without having to open the files on PC, then export to a CF card reader and load into the MPC.

Milage: I got love for hardware but all of them have quite a bit of age on them and regardless of the build quality, age has its effect on everything in time.

These are some of the things for me. For others that say they don't care about that and just want the Ren/Studio to be just like their hardware MPC, I suggest you just keep doing what you do on your current hardware MPC, or other system that is already working for that Heat you're already doing, cause I am not trying to sell anyone on the Ren/Studio. Just stating I enjoy it and hope AKAI will update for as long as feasible.

I've making beats on the MPC software for several months and my 2500 had been collecting dust. The software gives you a lot of functionally and is very powerful, and is pretty fun to make beats on, but productivity slowed down.

I pulled my 2500 out the closet last night and in about 4-10 minutes I made a beat that was rawer than anything I've made using the MPC software.

IMO nothing beats dedicated hardware. I mean how much technological power does one need to make music? I still plan on using the software for editing, but for now it's all about my 2500 and 4k. Workflow's just a lot better.

MPCWeapon1 wrote:

MPCTNT wrote:I will tell you just a few reasons why I chcoose Ren (In my case Studio) over 1k, 2500, or even my 5k, or any other MPCs I have owned...

Storage: I am not limited in choices of where to store data for samples, nor have to run cable to PC for slow data xfers. (I have a $110 3TB USB drive connect to laptop that I save and load samples to and from) it all runs in ram so drive speed is not an issue.

RAM: 4k nice with 512MB and 5K nice with its 192MB but my limit is now based on the host system and who using a system for pc recording with less than 4GB these days?

Plugins: I rarely used VSTs prior to getting my Studio just a few weeks ago but now it all just works and flows without a gang of midi connections. Along with their digital integration into my projects, instead of sampling into my MPC or playing then into separate tracks of my DAW. (I sold one of my keyboards and used a fraction of the money to buy Komplete, Urban Workstation, and Kork M1 Legacy and haven't missed my keyboard, since I have thouands more sounds than I did.)

Screen: I cannot only speak for myself here but I cannot tell you how many times I would be working on my 5K and say "I wish I could do this on my PC screen and see everything large and in color."

Integration: I can load into my DAW and other apps at the click of a mouse where I was previously only able to play and record with ins and outs, using real time recording for the length of the composition.

Audio Formats: Instead of just wav and snd I can load mp3, flac, etc... without having to open the files on PC, then export to a CF card reader and load into the MPC.

Milage: I got love for hardware but all of them have quite a bit of age on them and regardless of the build quality, age has its effect on everything in time.

These are some of the things for me. For others that say they don't care about that and just want the Ren/Studio to be just like their hardware MPC, I suggest you just keep doing what you do on your current hardware MPC, or other system that is already working for that Heat you're already doing, cause I am not trying to sell anyone on the Ren/Studio. Just stating I enjoy it and hope AKAI will update for as long as feasible.

I've making beats on the MPC software for several months and my 2500 had been collecting dust. The software gives you a lot of functionally and is very powerful, and is pretty fun to make beats on, but productivity slowed down.

I pulled my 2500 out the closet last night and in about 4-10 minutes I made a beat that was rawer than anything I've made using the MPC software.

IMO nothing beats dedicated hardware. I mean how much technological power does one need to make music? I still plan on using the software for editing, but for now it's all about my 2500 and 4k. Workflow's just a lot better.

I sold all my hardware boxes but at times, I say to myself "if I can cop a deal on another 1k or a 2500... hmmm, i just might add HW back to the arsenal" lol

I found that either or both HW and SW solutions can work, if we are willing to work them.

Sometimes I am in the mood to sit in front of the large PC screen and zoom here and there with the mouse...

Other times, I miss powering on the box, plugging in the headphone, loading up some sounds to pads, and just banging something out, saving it and moving on...

MPCTNT wrote:

MPCWeapon1 wrote:

MPCTNT wrote:I will tell you just a few reasons why I chcoose Ren (In my case Studio) over 1k, 2500, or even my 5k, or any other MPCs I have owned...

Storage: I am not limited in choices of where to store data for samples, nor have to run cable to PC for slow data xfers. (I have a $110 3TB USB drive connect to laptop that I save and load samples to and from) it all runs in ram so drive speed is not an issue.

RAM: 4k nice with 512MB and 5K nice with its 192MB but my limit is now based on the host system and who using a system for pc recording with less than 4GB these days?

Plugins: I rarely used VSTs prior to getting my Studio just a few weeks ago but now it all just works and flows without a gang of midi connections. Along with their digital integration into my projects, instead of sampling into my MPC or playing then into separate tracks of my DAW. (I sold one of my keyboards and used a fraction of the money to buy Komplete, Urban Workstation, and Kork M1 Legacy and haven't missed my keyboard, since I have thouands more sounds than I did.)

Screen: I cannot only speak for myself here but I cannot tell you how many times I would be working on my 5K and say "I wish I could do this on my PC screen and see everything large and in color."

Integration: I can load into my DAW and other apps at the click of a mouse where I was previously only able to play and record with ins and outs, using real time recording for the length of the composition.

Audio Formats: Instead of just wav and snd I can load mp3, flac, etc... without having to open the files on PC, then export to a CF card reader and load into the MPC.

Milage: I got love for hardware but all of them have quite a bit of age on them and regardless of the build quality, age has its effect on everything in time.

These are some of the things for me. For others that say they don't care about that and just want the Ren/Studio to be just like their hardware MPC, I suggest you just keep doing what you do on your current hardware MPC, or other system that is already working for that Heat you're already doing, cause I am not trying to sell anyone on the Ren/Studio. Just stating I enjoy it and hope AKAI will update for as long as feasible.

I've making beats on the MPC software for several months and my 2500 had been collecting dust. The software gives you a lot of functionally and is very powerful, and is pretty fun to make beats on, but productivity slowed down.

I pulled my 2500 out the closet last night and in about 4-10 minutes I made a beat that was rawer than anything I've made using the MPC software.

IMO nothing beats dedicated hardware. I mean how much technological power does one need to make music? I still plan on using the software for editing, but for now it's all about my 2500 and 4k. Workflow's just a lot better.

I sold all my hardware boxes but at times, I say to myself "if I can cop a deal on another 1k or a 2500... hmmm, i just might add HW back to the arsenal" lol

I found that either or both HW and SW solutions can work, if we are willing to work them.

Sometimes I am in the mood to sit in front of the large PC screen and zoom here and there with the mouse...

Other times, I miss powering on the box, plugging in the headphone, loading up some sounds to pads, and just banging something out, saving it and moving on...

I definitely understand where you're coming from.

I went from Hardware to software-only, back to hardware. Now I use both.