mpc ren 1.6 update

No arguments here dude - good discussion is always a positive. Didn't mean to come off in an argumentative manner if you interpreted it that way.

I get what you're saying, and everyone creates differently of course. For some, roadblocks spark creativity, for others, they hinder creativity. I generally float somewhere in between those two perspectives.

Eyalc wrote:+1. And I keep saying this... If you make 2 bar loops of kick, snare, hi hat and sample, then yes, there's no way you shouldn't be able to make music on the ren / studio. But more complex compositions? You run into too many roadblocks to creativity. It's just not ready to be the center instrument of a studio, like MPCs are designed to be.

Did you try the song mode ?

Because in song mode, you're able to convert your whole song into one sequence for example. Let's say you have like 3 sequences ready, you can convert it into one complex sequence.

Then let's say you just converted those 3 sequences into one, and now you have one long seq of 24 bars, you could eventually copy those bars to make it twice as long, and make another track to play an instrument on the whole sequence.

I think you can do complex things and there are ways to keep the amount of sequences low with the Ren. At least i try to, then i can mix the sequence itself and deny the global mixer issue.

I'm not sure this is the workflow they intended me to do but it works fine for me until they add features.

Eyalc wrote:I get what you're saying, and everyone creates differently of course. For some, roadblocks spark creativity, for others, they hinder creativity.

The problem is when those for whom roadblocks spark creativity, or do not encounter any roadblocks with their own particular workflow, think that everyone should have the same response and opinion as they do, and then dismiss the complaints and requests of those who don't as just hating.

@Simon

Meh, i'm sorry Simon you're still mad about me.

I'm not that kind of people, i know it has its flows. I also want things to be enhanced and implemented, like everyone, but i don't wanna piss on akai and give up on the ren. Just saying it could be better but it works for me after last updates. And with so many people hating on it, you could also understand that some people can actually be tired of it and want to take the defense.

Peace.

@all BTW i recommend Tutor's book for the ren, you can really learn things there and feel more comfortable. It can be a good step forward to be humble and try to use the maximum potential of the ren especially when you wanna do complex things.

MiniDX wrote:

Eyalc wrote:+1. And I keep saying this... If you make 2 bar loops of kick, snare, hi hat and sample, then yes, there's no way you shouldn't be able to make music on the ren / studio. But more complex compositions? You run into too many roadblocks to creativity. It's just not ready to be the center instrument of a studio, like MPCs are designed to be.

Did you try the song mode ?

Because in song mode, you're able to convert your whole song into one sequence for example. Let's say you have like 3 sequences ready, you can convert it into one complex sequence.

Then let's say you just converted those 3 sequences into one, and now you have one long seq of 24 bars, you could eventually copy those bars to make it twice as long, and make another track to play an instrument on the whole sequence.

I think you can do complex things and there are ways to keep the amount of sequences low with the Ren. At least i try to, then i can mix the sequence itself and deny the global mixer issue.

I'm not sure this is the workflow they intended me to do but it works fine for me until they add features.

On the MPC 5000 I used song mode for EVERY song. But this approach doesn't work for me when composing. And this is exactly what my point is - simple stuff the Ren is great for. But I write in song structure (which btw I don't consider something "complex" - from a song writing perspective it's basic 101) - verse, hook, chorus, sometimes a pre-chorus, sometimes a bridge. Once you convert to one sequence, you lose the ability to easily rearrange the parts to fit the song better. For example, let's say my structure is A-B-A-B-C-A-B-B. Each one is a sequence. If I want to move C earlier, I can do that as long as I have my sequences in tact. Once I convert to one sequence, it's darn near impossible to manage that change. Let alone if I need to make a few changes like that.

I'm not trying to disrespect anyone with the 2 bar loop concept, but the Ren is great for that style, and if you look at YouTube there's a TON of people that use that style. I'd like to see better support for more complex arrangements and MUCH better integration in plugin mode.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

Eyalc wrote:I get what you're saying, and everyone creates differently of course. For some, roadblocks spark creativity, for others, they hinder creativity.

The problem is when those for whom roadblocks spark creativity, or do not encounter any roadblocks with their own particular workflow, think that everyone should have the same response and opinion as they do, and then dismiss the complaints and requests of those who don't as just hating.

I see this a lot too. And its unfortunate that some think that way.


My main gripe is that I can do things on the 5000 that I can't do on the Ren without roadblocks. So for me, the Ren is a step backwards. I'd like to see it improve, but these are basic things that IMO are needed to make this thing ready for prime time. No hate - heck I've been buying Akai since the DR4d days. Who here can say that??? LOL.

Nubian Mindz wrote:…the modern DAW is becoming crazy convoluted with options after options which tend to hinder my creative process rather than allow me to focus in and create, shape sounds and get my ideas down quickly.

TRUE!

I think one reason why many producers still love their trustworthy 2000 XLs is that when you're working with one, you're concentrating on your song/idea instead of millions of ways of sound-sculpting, mixing, editing etc.

Eyalc wrote:

MiniDX wrote:

Eyalc wrote:+1. And I keep saying this... If you make 2 bar loops of kick, snare, hi hat and sample, then yes, there's no way you shouldn't be able to make music on the ren / studio. But more complex compositions? You run into too many roadblocks to creativity. It's just not ready to be the center instrument of a studio, like MPCs are designed to be.

Did you try the song mode ?

Because in song mode, you're able to convert your whole song into one sequence for example. Let's say you have like 3 sequences ready, you can convert it into one complex sequence.

Then let's say you just converted those 3 sequences into one, and now you have one long seq of 24 bars, you could eventually copy those bars to make it twice as long, and make another track to play an instrument on the whole sequence.

I think you can do complex things and there are ways to keep the amount of sequences low with the Ren. At least i try to, then i can mix the sequence itself and deny the global mixer issue.

I'm not sure this is the workflow they intended me to do but it works fine for me until they add features.

On the MPC 5000 I used song mode for EVERY song. But this approach doesn't work for me when composing. And this is exactly what my point is - simple stuff the Ren is great for. But I write in song structure (which btw I don't consider something "complex" - from a song writing perspective it's basic 101) - verse, hook, chorus, sometimes a pre-chorus, sometimes a bridge. Once you convert to one sequence, you lose the ability to easily rearrange the parts to fit the song better. For example, let's say my structure is A-B-A-B-C-A-B-B. Each one is a sequence. If I want to move C earlier, I can do that as long as I have my sequences in tact. Once I convert to one sequence, it's darn near impossible to manage that change. Let alone if I need to make a few changes like that.

I'm not trying to disrespect anyone with the 2 bar loop concept, but the Ren is great for that style, and if you look at YouTube there's a TON of people that use that style. I'd like to see better support for more complex arrangements and MUCH better integration in plugin mode.

It's not impossible but i agree it is not as fast as sliding everything with a mouse in a common daw.
In that case i would add as many bars as C at the end of the sequence, then move the notes (the ones that must be after C) toward the and use copy bars in seq edit mode. Then after you still have to erase original C, move back last notes and delete the bars at the end.

If you do many of these you can feel you're wasting a lot of time for sure. I'd advice to not convert a whole big 150 bars into one seq, generally i convert 2 or 3 together max and build it step by step.

But i understand what you say because i can do that really easily and fast on my other daw. It already happened to me that i exported my whole mpc mix on studio one and did those last arrangements cuts and copy there right before mastering.

They need to improve ergonomy and workflow on the mouse.

MiniDX wrote:
It's not impossible but i agree it is not as fast as sliding everything with a mouse in a common daw.
In that case i would add as many bars as C at the end of the sequence, then move the notes (the ones that must be after C) toward the and use copy bars in seq edit mode. Then after you still have to erase original C, move back last notes and delete the bars at the end.

If you do many of these you can feel you're wasting a lot of time for sure. I'd advice to not convert a whole big 150 bars into one seq, generally i convert 2 or 3 together max and build it step by step.

But i understand what you say because i can do that really easily and fast on my other daw. It already happened to me that i exported my whole mpc mix on studio one and did those last arrangements cuts and copy there right before mastering.

They need to improve ergonomy and workflow on the mouse.

Makes sense. Yeah, would hate to do that too many times in the Ren software! Thanks for the explanation.

MiniDX wrote:It's not impossible but i agree it is not as fast as sliding everything with a mouse in a common daw.
In that case i would add as many bars as C at the end of the sequence, then move the notes (the ones that must be after C) toward the and use copy bars in seq edit mode. Then after you still have to erase original C, move back last notes and delete the bars at the end.

If you do many of these you can feel you're wasting a lot of time for sure. I'd advice to not convert a whole big 150 bars into one seq, generally i convert 2 or 3 together max and build it step by step.

But i understand what you say because i can do that really easily and fast on my other daw. It already happened to me that i exported my whole mpc mix on studio one and did those last arrangements cuts and copy there right before mastering.

They need to improve ergonomy and workflow on the mouse.

OR: You just save the song and edit it there. You can still save different songs, too.

I just want audio tracks, so I don't have to open pro tools until its time to MIX mix.

But right now I run it in Pro Tools most of the time. The marriage there is pretty good.

From what I hear, it's better than in Logic. But that would make sense, because wasn't there rumors / marketing about including a light version of protools with the MPC software a while back? Maybe they spent time working on that plugin integration. But I don't use it as a plugin in Logic because... well, search my posts, you'll see why. Hoping 1.6 makes it tighter.

TT_Lab wrote:

Louie lou wrote:Pete say on 30 Oct 13

"Today is exciting MPC conversation day."

With Who? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Pete say on 7 Nov 13
"Back in the UK office, deep in the MPC mines. Really excited about what's coming up."

Looks like he gets excited pretty easy. Lets see what gives in the next update.

Pete says on 13 Nov 13

"Introducing new team member to the MPC codebase. Fun times."

Looks like they got some more muscle on the MPC development. Lets see if he/she knows their craft.

Exactly what I was going to quote.

Lets hope they got in touch with JJ