What would you pay for MPC 2000 in 2014?

talll13 wrote:Can someone explain to me, the LCD issue on classic you are talking about? (a bit out of topic)

On both the 2k Classic and the XL Akai used a very specific model of LCD. This particular LCD was prone to have issues with heat that built up as the unit was used for long periods of time. After a point the heat always caused the LCD screens to start losing pixels, whole lines at at a time. Somewhere in the archives here people more technically savvy than myself have clearly explained why these LCD's fail related to the heat.

Essentially every 2k and 2000XL are ticking time bombs as far as the LCD screens. It's like zip discs, it not a matter of if it will fail but rather when it will fail, it is 100% inevitable. It isn't that just some of the LCD's eventually lose lines, it's all of them.

The 2000 was only made from 1997-2000. The XL was made from 1998-2004. (My assumption has always been when the XL was discontinued in 2005 for the 2500 release that all the dead stick XL's were made in 2004 at the latest.)

I vividly recall seeing the last OEM Akai 2000/XL LCD's selling on eBay in late Summer /early Fall of 2009. A guy had had 3-5 of them and was getting $350-$400USD for them. Around the same time MPCStuff had maybe like 1 or 2 it seemed and those sold for a similar high price.

So for the last 4-5 years the only option really is to source whole machines even just for the LCD. I did exactly that. I have an XL with 16 lines missing on the LCD. But when I bought my next XL it was almost mint, and had clearly been made closer to 2004 (paint hue and LCD hue slightly differed from my other one which I know is 98/99 one). I paid $400 for it and added a CF reader.

The 2000 classic and XL are both great machines. The LCD thing is just something we all have to deal with. At least when you source a 2nd unit just for the LCD, you have a backup parts machine or can break it down and easily make your money back selling the parts. especially if you end up with two 8 output boards.

Many many thanks Metatron72!!
That was something that i wasn't aware, are 2k and xl uses the same lcd? Mean can i grap a broken mpc 2000 for spare LCD for my xl?

Don't forget the MPC4000 LCDs.

Metatron72 wrote:why these LCD's fail related to the heat.

Elastomeric connector (ZEBRA strip) issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastomeric_connector
http://www.fujipoly.com/usa/design-guidelines/89.html

The strip maybe breaks down over time, possibly with the help of heat inside the unit, and warps or loses elasticity, and/or it outgasses and forms a film between the strip and the glass, therefore losing contact/conductivity with glass in different places, leading to the increasing number of dead lines on the LCD over time, until it is unreadable.

It is a fairly common problem with LCDs on many different devices.

Another possible alternative to LCD replacement might be ZEBRA strip replacement or cleaning, and glass cleaning in the ZEBRA strip contact area.

Right on Simon. I was actually going to write in my post, "Simon probably has some insight"

Yeah the 4k LCDs do eventually give out too, but they seem a lot heartier than the 2k series ones.

I lurked here for at least 3-4 years before even making an account, and buried somewhere in here are some threads were some techy types shared how they were able at least temporarily to doctor the 2k LCD's back to life.

Too bad Envionslec (I think was his name) never got the v2 of his LCD replacement going. Even the problematic first run ones seemed really close to the mark. I recall minor refresh lag being the only issue. Well that a low quantity made, and they sold out so quick.

Thanks again for the technical insight, I am far from that technically skilled with all this stuff. I just have a weird memory and recall almost everything I've read on this forum over the years.

Metatron72 wrote:I am far from that technically skilled with all this stuff. I just have a weird memory and recall almost everything I've read on this forum over the years.

I am far from that technically skilled with all this stuff. I just have OCD issues and like to research the shit out of this sort of shit.

Let me elaborate...I haven't touched a soldering iron since I was 10...and I'm 41.

I relate to the OCD thing, but clearly you apply yours to going a little further under the hood.

I have a 2000xl n will never get rid of it, I love it but no I would absolutely not buy one nowadays. There's a lot better options...

Metatron72 wrote:Thanks again for the technical insight, I am far from that technically skilled with all this stuff. I just have a weird memory and recall almost everything I've read on this forum over the years.

Scrap my 'technical insight' above.

Had a look inside the LCD, out of interest, and it is not a Zebra strip at all.

It has a flex cable joining the PCB to the glass, rather than a Zebra strip, which is a pity, as it might have been easier to fix/replace a Zebra strip.

The flex cable is bonded to the glass using anisotropic conductive adhesive, at a particular temperature, under pressure.

This is a conductive adhesive, used to join cables and components to LCD glass, among other things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisotropic_conductive_film

The table in the wiki shows common assembly methods for ACF...

I always wondered if this would work for fixing those ever since I saw this vid..

Good video (and Aussie for a change), thanks.

Yes, I think it might work.

Just need to work out best temperature and time to use, and probably a way to get even pressure across it would help.

His temperature was probably in Celsius, as that is what we use here, but he didn't mention it. Sounds like it was too hot, since the ribbon was starting to melt.

The table I posted above my be a good starting point, though would be worth digging for some more information on the adhesive, to see what other times/temps/pressures are recommended for flex on glass.

Maybe clamp it and hit it with a variable temperature heat gun, if you can get heat guns that output the appropriate temperature, as you might be able to better direct the heat from a heat gun just onto the glass/flex connection, rather than backing the whole glass and PCB assembly. Or maybe heat it and then clamp it.

Would be good to sort out a process so they can be repaired, rather than replaced.

Need someone with a bad LCD to give it a go.

From the Youtube comments...

retrogami.ng 1 year ago in reply to blablupp77

@blablupp77 Good point I did it at 250C... There was no real science or theory behind that temperature, I just wanted it hot! Honestly though, if I was to do it again I would start at 180 - 200C. The ribbon cables have a natural curve in them and at 250C, it only took about 10 seconds for them to begin to straighten out under their own weight (getting close to their melting point!). I'd rather the process went a little slower to reduce the risk of melting something! Thanks for the comment

Also mentioned in the comments, maybe a hot air pencil on a soldering rework station.

A year ago i payed $300 for a 2k classic with maxed ram and 8 outs. came with a zip drive and 11 2gig discs though too. of course now a year later i have had to replace some switches and i am dreading how much a new screen will cost since mine went from like 2 lines to like 1/3 of the screen gone. anyway, i'd pay $300 again.

Luckily, I've only had one or two Zip discs fail on me a long time ago. Those discs were from a friend. None of my own had failed, and neither has my original drive that I still have from 1998.

I'm curious to know, out of all the people who've had Zip drives fail on them, were they bought used? I'm wondering if these failures have occurred due to improper use and handling. I'm sure that keeping a Zip drive standing sideways shortens it's life-span. It's also possible that traveling with a Zip drive will shorten it's lifespan.

Keeping a disc inserted in the drive while traveling may help prevent the mechanism from excessive vibrations, just as recommended for floppy discs and similar devices. So a few preventative measures are worth following here to prolong the life of the drive. There's still no guarantee of whether it will help if these drives fail for other reasons that are unknown. But these suggestions won't hurt either.

Also, if anyone out there wish to continue using Zip drives, it would be wise to have an extra drive for backup. I bought 2 external SCSI drives, since the first one I bought for the MPC was too noisy. So the first drive sits safely in a closet to be used for a spare just incase. I only spent around $20 or so for each drive. I still use Zips to transport samples and kits from my PC. Since I was concerned with disc failure also being an issue, I bought new discs (factory sealed) and I keep them stored properly. If anything fails, everything is backed up on my PC's backup hard drive.