An Article I think everyone Should read......

graff got included into hip hop via wildstyle. Graff artists have been around since the 60s due to gangs and ish. Cornbread (Cornbread, Earl and me) was reconized as the first "graff" aretist casue he was bombin philly. Then Wildstyle was made and they kinda lumped that in as hip hop. So thats why graff is included. Bboyin and djin and emceein started as the real elements then graff got added.

fobedafied wrote:graff before hiphop was primarily territorial markings and so an so was here type of chit, also the occasional band name hit up as Dove mentioned... hiphop came and created a new meaning for graff... styles, skills, ups, etc... hiphop graff is very much more intricate and complex in its purpose, not to mention style... hiphop made graff significant, graff helped hiphop grow to be more universal... graff is universally accessible now, yet few truely understand graff to the fullest...

I agree with that last part, but Bing hit the sh!t on the head, graff got thrown into hip hop thorugh Wild Style, graff before hip hop music, between 75 and 79 in NYC was basically the same sh!t you still see up today, not just territorial or gang markings, Dondi was rocking full subway burnbers, top to bottom, end to ends with full color and characters (look up Children of the Grave - based on the Sabbath song).

Graff is bigger than hip hop, some cats were into hip hop like Dez and Skeme, and cats like Seen, Dondi, Zephyr and Richie were straight rockers, but their graff is still grouped into hip-hop. And I know for a fact Seen hates hip-hop music, he was trippin out at a show out here cause they were playing hip hop all night.

What's up? What's all this nonsense about real hiphop, and how mtv is killing "our" culture? You can still walk to your turntable and choose any record you like right?
And we're the fortunate ones, we can even turn on our mpc and make anything you like. Nobody's telling you to make weak shit.

I don't give a damn what happens to hiphop, I can still do my thing. I play hiphop 8 hours a day at work, and i hear the term "negro/monkey music" at least 3 times a day. All my coworkers are white. Do I care what they think about my shit? No. They just don't know any better, and if somebody likes hardrock, that's fine with me too.

One more thing: What's the wackest hiphop on mtv right now, Nelly? Well ten years ago Vanilla Ice was, you liked him better?

Being from Chicago, I'd like to say I live in a city with an identity crisis stemming way back to the 80's leaving alot of artists unsure of what "Chicago Hip-hop music" should sound like. Shrowded in the shadows of the east and west coasts, some Chicago artists where forced to build their skills in Rhyme and production to no end. However, some frauds slip through the cracks (Kanye West), garner the praise of the hip-hop community and give the rest of the hip-hop community a false sense of what we truely have to offer. Meanwhile the true visionaries go un-noticed.It's so sad to see our beloved culture get dragged through this b.s., but thats the way it goes i guess. The humble slave hard in the fields whaile the ego-maniacle throw hissy fits because their album full of stolen beats and propaganda didn't get them nominated for an award that does nothing for hip-hop.

well....hip hop is all of it...from the kanye west's to the mc hammer's.....to the nelly's....to the MURS....to Slum Vill.....to that kid next door with them wack beats........stop hating!

Please note that I didn't read the whole thread, but I agree with Pete on the matter that Hip-Hop is different today (for the worse). Now don't get it twisted; Hip-Hop is more accessable, and there is alot of variaety, but the quality is not there (percentage wise). Lets look at a few things here:

Lyrics: NO WHERE NEAR the diverse subject matter. If you look at all the "popular" Hip-Hop music the subject matter is BS! Also alot of artist today are more R&B (Chingy) than Hip-Hop.

Tracks: Mixed bag here. You have some good stuff and some bad stuff, but I think if you really look closely you will find alot of stolen styles, and copied melodies.

Other: Here is where we REALLY have the biggest disparity. Today most people equat Hip-Hop with rap, when originally rap was only a small part of the equation! What happened to graf, and breakin', and REAL DJ'ing (it's still around, but not as mainstream)?


My view of this current state is that BIG money got involved, and now things are done for the love of money, and not the love of the art form! The media is the biggest culprete! MTV and radio DICTATE what is good, and the labels dictate to them what will be good. Why is it that you can here the same songs being played on the radio 20 to 50 times a day? I'm also sure that most people know that record companies PAY radio stations to play certain records!

WHY? Because a record company makes more money off of 1 artist who sales 1 million records than 10 artist who sale 100 thousand records!

Windy_City_Hawk wrote:WHY? Because a record company makes more money off of 1 artist who sales 1 million records than 10 artist who sale 100 thousand records!

check your math.....they'd be bringing in equal amounts of sales, so your statement is null and void....

Boogie Man wrote:

Windy_City_Hawk wrote:WHY? Because a record company makes more money off of 1 artist who sales 1 million records than 10 artist who sale 100 thousand records!

check your math.....they'd be bringing in equal amounts of sales, so your statement is null and void....

actually........both of you are wrong(windy is the closest being right though).......because it takes money to make money....sorry boog's you still my dude....but it all depends on what they put in the project.....while they might put $1 million into promoting nelly and gave him an advance of $2,000,000 and let's say he sells 1,000,000 copies......about $10 million right?......wrong...they invested $3,000,000....some contracts have artist pay for 50% of promos and videos out of advance......so that means nelly would have to sell more than 3 million on a standard contract to get royalty checks.....but still so far...the record company still on top with a hefty 7 million profit........

now I say standard promotion in the majors would be $300-500k and if all of those 10 artist sold 100k copies on that budget the record company loses big time...it would be almost time to shut the doors if they don't sign a million seller or better soon.......and artist always try to get the biggest advance they can because they have to live off that for a while if they don't have a second hustle........so does that sound even at all..........?..so if the artist took a $60,000 advance and sold 100k..........guess what..the artist don't get paid again....but the record company still took a big lost...........on a major and you been out for a few months and you sold 33,000 copies to date........they pull the plug* fast.......ask cassidy! or maybe Master P........why lose more money when you don't have to!

I hear ya Prah, and agree. My example was very simple, and did not take into consideration that different artist get different budgets. But as you pointed out sales are dependant on what was put into the album. That is why most artist aren't promoted well!

Also, record companies nowadays feel that they "know" the Hip-Hop market, and try to predict what/who will sell. In these cases they usually tend to sign artist who are similar to other artist who have sold well.