Create a song out of track muting

I've done something similar with the Ren in the past regarding track muting. I use one sequence and write a ton of parts/tracks while muting and un-muting various parts that go together during the writing phase. I attempt to organize, drums on tracks 2-16 (track 1 is saved for the marker track, see below), bass sounds on 17-24, lead sounds on 24-32, etc.... This way If I want to mute a drum sound I know it's on Bank A in the track mutes. If I want to mute a bass or lead sound I know it's on Bank B etc...

Once I feel that I have enough parts to layout a whole song I mute everything except what I want to play at the beginning of the song. After I have just the things playing that I want in the beginning I duplicate the sequence and un-mute the next parts I want to come in. I then duplicate that sequence and un-mute a few more parts or mute old ones. I keep doing this until I can just manually flip through the sequences and have a basic song layout.

After all of that and playing around with letting some of the sequences loop I do a basic song structure with song mode. Then I convert the song into one long sequence.
From there I will make a marker track (base on my marker track idea I came up with)
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=166672&p=1585060&hilit=marker+track+idea#p1585060

This allows me to mark off sections and groups of measures so it's easier to quickly navigate and loop sections of the track I'm doing more detailed work on especially on larger sequences with 100+ bars.

Next I go through and work on transitional sections and at the end do the full mix with the track mixer (if possible). Most of the time I end up just exporting the tracks as individual audio files and use Cubase to do the final mix. I would mix in the Ren but we don't have group tracks, meters, or sidechaining capabilities.

Just a quick overview of one way I go about getting from start to finish.

You could easily do something similar and instead of muting then duplicating sequences you could just duplicate the loop a bunch of times (more than you need) and while it's playing record your track mutes live. Once you had the layout made from track mutes you can cut off any extra loops on the end of the sequence and it's ready to go.

InspectahEX wrote:Yea, I just run my outputs in into my inputs on my interface so it records whatever is coming out the main outs, nothing being internally routed

Great info... I'm on the MPC Studio and contemplating buying the Ren so I can do exactly what you're doing... just wondering though:

What type of interface and cables are you running through into PT? And how is the sound from the direct outs? Would you consider that D/A converter pretty quality?

I'm guessing you're running a Mac with dual soundcards via 10.8? 10.9.1/Mavericks??

I have Mavericks and want to do the same thing except track/record audio into Logic PX as opposed to Pro Tools.

Thanks for your posts around here, they've really helped me out a ton.

benKingsley wrote: What type of interface and cables are you running through into PT? And how is the sound from the direct outs? Would you consider that D/A converter pretty quality?

focusrite scarlett 8i6 and regular 1/4 audio cables, the quality is good, not the best I had it for like 4 years already. I was thinking of replacing it when I get a chance.

I just record using track mutes on the fly and record into anything, audacity, ableton tracks, sound forge etc.

Very useful info y'all!

So adding a ghostnote to a mute group or assigning the first sample that should be playing in the next sequence is the only solution to cut off the first sequences samples?

I still haven't solved this one:

Another problem i stumbled upon when using track muting. (or maybe it's more general)

I Have a hihat on group mute 1 and my kick is also assigned to group mute one. They are both on seperate tracks. First I lay down the hats. after that the kick. The kick cuts the hat off, like it should be. But when I track mute the kick, you'll still here the cut off hihat.

When using the mpc2500 the hats will play in its complete form after you track mute the kick. Is this a new workaround?

Does anyone know how to do this?

I'll tell you how I create a song.

I take a sequence that I'm happy with, say 8-16 bars and I go to song then repeat for, roughly, 6 mins (maybe 32 repeats? or something like that)

I then convert.

This long sequence is then used to create the song.

1st I select that sequence then just hit overdub + play and mute/unmute pads and tracks as I go along, further editing and refining where necessary but mostly via live takes.

2ndly I'll add further movement and automation via the 16 q links which I'll route to sends/filters/fx parameters/etc..

3rdly I'll just record that directly into Reaper and that's it. That's the jam right there.

If I need a different mixdown I'll bounce (export) EVERYTHING to audio and mix within Cubase.

It's quick and easy and yields great results.

Nubian Mindz wrote:I'll tell you how I create a song.

I take a sequence that I'm happy with, say 8-16 bars and I go to song then repeat for, roughly, 6 mins (maybe 32 repeats? or something like that)

I then convert.

This long sequence is then used to create the song.

1st I select that sequence then just hit overdub + play and mute/unmute pads and tracks as I go along, further editing and refining where necessary but mostly via live takes.

2ndly I'll add further movement and automation via the 16 q links which I'll route to sends/filters/fx parameters/etc..

3rdly I'll just record that directly into Reaper and that's it. That's the jam right there.

If I need a different mixdown I'll bounce (export) EVERYTHING to audio and mix within Cubase.

It's quick and easy and yields great results.

This is the exact method I use (converting all sequences to 1 sequence then mute edit) as well minus the 3rd step I just export to Cubase if I need to record vocals or anything live.

NavNek wrote:
I Have a hihat on group mute 1 and my kick is also assigned to group mute one. They are both on seperate tracks. First I lay down the hats. after that the kick. The kick cuts the hat off, like it should be. But when I track mute the kick, you'll still here the cut off hihat.

When using the mpc2500 the hats will play in its complete form after you track mute the kick. Is this a new workaround?

Does anyone know how to do this?

Once you distinguish the difference between Track Mutes and Pad Mutes you will be fine.

Track Mutes and Track Groups Mode are for Tracks
Pad Mutes and Pad Groups Mode are for PGMs


I uploaded a MPC Ren File.
MPC Ren Mute Examples Demo

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5i46z ... %20Demos(2).zip



What you will see in each Sequence:

Seq.001- PGM Edit Pad Play Mute Group
You will hear the kick and the hi hat set to cut off on within the Seq.
Kick and Hi Hat are assigned to Mute Group 1 within the PAD Play Modes in the Program Edit window on MPC Software.
The Kick and Hi hat alternate cutting on/off once the sound next sound assigned to the mute group is triggered by the other sound assigned to the mute group.

At or around 002:02:820 the kick begins to cut off as soon the hi hat midi note is triggered which is just a tad bit behind the kick which shuts the kick off making a warp sound. Take a look Grid views for the Program, placement of the notes for hi hat track and the kick track. You will see where the kick hit just before the hi hat.
So this maybe your issue with why your hi hats plays cut off in your seq. while the kick is muted.

*Drum Program Pad Play Mode: When pads assigned to the same mute group receive MIDI notes, the last note played will mute any other sounding instrument of that mute group
*Remember this is a Program Pad Play mute and not a TRACK Mute.


Seq002- Kick Track Muted
I just simply Pressed Track mute button on the MPC Ren hardware. Follow by the Rec Button and Pressed My Kick track to mute. As you can hear the hi hats play as normal without cutting off.

*Track mute will only mute/unmute what's on the TRACK in the Sequence.



Seq003.-PGM Edit Pad Play Mute Group Mode
Press and hold Shift Track mute /Pad Mute Button on the MPC Ren.
F1 tab PadMute, F2 tab Pad Group
I assigned Pads A2 and Pad A3 to a PAD Muted Group (Group1). Now when I Press either Pad A2 or Pad A3 while in Pad Mute Mode both pads will be muted. I recorded a mute using Pad group in the sequence.

*Pad Group Mode pad are used to mute/unmute multiple pads simultaneously in a Program.



Seq004.Track Group Mutes Group Mode
Press the Track Mute Button on the MPC Ren.
F1 Tab TrkMute, F2 tab TrkGroup
I assigned the Track 1 Hi Hat track and Track 4 Sample to a TrkGroup (Group1)
If you hit either pad A1 or Pad A4 the Two track will mute/unmute

*Track Group Modes are used to mute/unmute multiple tracks simultaneously

Lastly Song Mode I just inserted the sequences. Once you press play you will hear them daisy chained together with the mutes still intact.

Now this a really informative thread.!

Props.

peace

Thanks! BUT I can still hear the first hihat cut off if you track mute the kick...

Also about the initial question i had regarding hearing samples from the previous sequence in the next sequence:
I have 2 programs. Both contain a couple of samples. They are one-shot. I make an intro with program 1. The last sample/note recorded is set to mute group 1. The next sequence is made with program 2. All the samples are assigned to mute group 1. I first play the intro (seq 1) then I switch to the next sequence. I still hear the last sample/note that is played in sequence 1, continuing in sequence 2.

Like I said, take one of your empty pads in "program 1" and have it mute your other pads in that program at the very beginning of "sequence 2"

Set program 1 to monophonic or set a particular pad's mute target to whatever pad you want it to cut off.

Make sure your program 1 is on track 1 and program 2 is on track 2 in both sequences so they are lined up. If you have 2 different programs on 2 different tracks than they aren't going to be able to mute each other, or at least not that Im aware of.

NavNek wrote:Thanks! BUT I can still hear the first hihat cut off if you track mute the kick...

Also about the initial question i had regarding hearing samples from the previous sequence in the next sequence:
I have 2 programs. Both contain a couple of samples. They are one-shot. I make an intro with program 1. The last sample/note recorded is set to mute group 1. The next sequence is made with program 2. All the samples are assigned to mute group 1. I first play the intro (seq 1) then I switch to the next sequence. I still hear the last sample/note that is played in sequence 1, continuing in sequence 2.

Pad Play Mute will only activate the sounds within that Program. You can't assign a sound to Program 001 Pad A1 in Pad Play Mute Group mode to cut off the Sound on Pad A1 in Program 002.


Follow InspectahEX suggestion.

I dont want to sound like a complete dumbass, but the problem still occurs.

seq 1. basic loop with program 1 on track 1 (one shot)

seq 2. basic loop with program 2 on track 2 (one shot)
seq 2. a ghostnote at the very beginning with program 1 on track 1 (to mute te continuing sound of program 1 on track 1 of seq1.)

This last note of seq 1 is still playing in seq2 even tho I muted the oneshot sound of program 1 on track 1 of seq1.

NavNek wrote:I dont want to sound like a complete dumbass, but the problem still occurs.

seq 1. basic loop with program 1 on track 1 (one shot)

seq 2. basic loop with program 2 on track 2 (one shot)
seq 2. a ghostnote at the very beginning with program 1 on track 1 (to mute te continuing sound of program 1 on track 1 of seq1.)

This last note of seq 1 is still playing in seq2 even tho I muted the oneshot sound of program 1 on track 1 of seq1.

Program 1 will not cut off assigned Pad Play mute groups assigned to Program 2 sounds or vice versa.

In your case you are trying to make a sound from program1 cut off a sound in program 2 this will not work.


Are you really using 128 sounds in each of those two sampled programs?
If not here's away to help you out.

Just combine all the sampled one shot sounds that you have recording into one Program. Not to included your Drums keep them in a separate program if you choose to do so.

1. Create a new program. We will call this new program Samples.
2. Now drop and drag only the sampled one shot sounds that you have record from Program1 and Program 2 into the desired pad banks of the newly created Samples program.
3.Assign the Pad Play mute groups.
4.Re-Record the samples into the sequences using the Samples program. Now each sound will cut off if you mute groups are assigned correctly all within the same program.

I like to use the track mute method also. Here's a little hint for you. If you use Soundflower, you can record multiple tracks (16 mono, 8 stereo) into your daw while still using track mute on the fly. Just set Soundflower (64ch) as your Ren output and set Soundflower (64ch) as your daw input. Then, if you have piano on track 1 in MPC, set that track's output to Out 1,2 and set track 1 input to your daw as Input 1-2 and so on for each instrument. Once you have all your inputs/outputs assigned, record enable all your tracks in your daw. Record and "play" your track mutes from the MPC.
Now your recording up to 16 mono tracks at once.

NavNek wrote:I dont want to sound like a complete dumbass, but the problem still occurs.

seq 1. basic loop with program 1 on track 1 (one shot)

seq 2. basic loop with program 2 on track 2 (one shot)
seq 2. a ghostnote at the very beginning with program 1 on track 1 (to mute te continuing sound of program 1 on track 1 of seq1.)

This last note of seq 1 is still playing in seq2 even tho I muted the oneshot sound of program 1 on track 1 of seq1.

Try this out…. on your last note of sequence 1 go to program edit and under pad play modes(same place you change a pad's mute group) change the sample play to note-on instead of one shot. Make your midi note for that sound to the end of the sequence. with "note-on", it should cut itself off.

Alternately, you can go into MPC Preferences, and under the Sequencer tab, check the box that says "Instant Track Mute" This should cut the notes off immediately when you use track mute.