is making a beat the same as making ...

I understand what you are saying Dubmonkey - turntables(?), pots and pans, garbage bin lids, etc. are not FORMAL musical instruments. What I was saying, and I think others are trying to say, is that the MUSICIAN defines what a musical instrument is for himself. Whatever a musician uses to make his music is a musical instrument!

I am sure before the wooden block was used as an instrument people did not consider it an instrument, but the more commonly used it became so did it's acceptance as a musical instrument. I think the same applies to turntables. Not many people (yourself included) accept them as musical instruments because they were not ORIGINALLY created to be musical instruments.

BUT... because a creative person saw beyond the limitations he was able to use them as an instrument, and today they are commonly used in that manner - which therefore makes them a FORMAL musical instrument (unlike pots and pans, or garbage can lids.). A computer was not INTENDED to be used for music, but today they are commonly used, and accepted as musical intruments when used in that manner.


P.S.
Let me also add that I think that a single turntable MAY not be considered a musical insturment because it's utility in that manner is limited to playing back music, with altering it ENOUGH to consider what is created a NEW creation. When a second (or more) turntable is added along with a mixer do I consider it a POTENTIAL musical instrument. I think this matter is much more subjective than the above.

"cant we all just get a bong"

lets all agree to disagree.

Im split.

Cause DJS have so much skill its rediculous. I mean, Just timing, coordination, ability to work a crowd, sampling (if they make beats)

Its just so amazing what djs can do, it mind boggling. (ive got a friend who enters World Comps, DMC, and Wins) and aside the fact that, those who have really turned DJs to be considered musicians..........

BUT, i agree with dubmonkey, i dont think they are neccesarily using turntables as musical instruments.

I mean, is a sound engineer a musician? na, hes a sound engineer. Is the guy on the mixing console at a concert a musician? na, but that does not lessen any degree of skill, or importance. Its sort of like a b-boy, they bring engergy, and a new element to everything.

In hiphop, the dj is what everything revolves around (no pun intended) so even though he might not be a "muscian" he is still very important. I think some djs cross the line because they also produce.

sorry if i repurpetuated anything, or repeated anything, just my 2 cents.



peace

I hear what you're saying Cyrus as not ALL DJ's are musicians (when DJ'ing), and not all DJ's use turntables as musical instruments.

Answer this; if I have an MPC, and it has only 2 samples in it - lets say a kick and a snare; can I make music? If I make music with only these two sounds am I a musician? If so is the MPC a musical instrument?

I think the answer is "YES" to all of these questions. Now, lets look at each turntable as one of those samples, and instead of using a sequencer I am using a mixer! Voila - pretty much the same thing.

Now what REALLY makes the DJ a musician is that he is putting together multiple sounds ON THE FLY, and is able to change up the beat, the rhythm, melody, and harmony by simply using ALL the facilities of his equipment. He can slow it down, speed it up, scratch, juggle beats, combine beats, play it backwards, and possibly add effects to alter the sound even more!

Now if that isn't MAKING music then I don't know what is!

^^^true, true

And that is how "electronica" (hiphop) started. Two turntables, 2 records with breaks, and an emcee.


peace

What difference is there between an MPC and a turntable?

Both only play back pre-recorded sound and don't emit their own notes.

Seems like they got quite a bit in common, except a turntable is linear and an MPC isnt.

But Really, the MPC is just a fancy deck, so I guess it's not an instrument at all.

I don't think anyone here, or anyone in their right mind would call an MPC an instrument...do you?

Who cares if you can manipulate sounds with an MPC...I just bought it to to play my sounds just like a CD player....I have no idea what you wankers do with it....make music???? PSHHHHH.....That's pure rubish!

And a Piano?????....that's even worse! Ivory and wood are not musical instruments!

Guitar?????...strings and wood....that's not musical either.

When piano and guitar was invented....I don't know what they were thinking....YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO USE WOOD TO BUILD HOUSES AND MAKE FIRE...I'm sorry wood and strings are too inanimate..it's just not musical.

Anyways, The MPC is made outta plastic, rubber and metal...it's just not musical either!

Those Boom bap sounds that people make with it are attrocious.
That is not music! Where's the REAL melody! Where is Bach? Where ever he is I bet he's not using an MPC cause it's not an instrument.

And using a PC too??? Pshhh that's just for school,business, porn and games...not very musical either....VST's....pure Rubbish!

ONE wrote:And using a PC too??? Pshhh that's just for school,business, porn and games...not very musical either....VST's....pure Rubbish!

I dont know what you are talking about dude.....school? business? Games? na man, Just Porn.

cyrus wrote:

ONE wrote:And using a PC too??? Pshhh that's just for school,business, porn and games...not very musical either....VST's....pure Rubbish!

I dont know what you are talking about dude.....school? business? Games? na man, Just Porn.

Word....I hear that! After I finish wacking off, I'm going to go make some "beats" with my kitchen set and grand piano.......

http://www.asisphonics.net/scratchmusicianproducer.html here's an article that might help you understand a little better.
peace

dj e.d.e wrote:http://www.asisphonics.net/scratchmusicianproducer.html here's an article that might help you understand a little better.
peace

that was actually pretty funny!

one you crack me up....

greg

and yeah windy its all linguistic and its all been said in previous posts....is the dj in limp bizkit considered a musician if so what else does he do other than drop the odd scratch in...one example of turntables not really cutting it in the realm of musical instruments....best amalgamation ive witnessed between instruments and decks was becks band with dj swamp...it was awesome but i didnt consider dj swamp to be playing a musical instrument when he was scratching and stuff certainly not in the same context as the rest of the band.

can we kill this now cos im not sure how many more configurations i can put this in and as all we are doing is repeating ourselves is it really worth flogging a dead horse?
greg

I like flogging dead horses! It's one of the few pleasures I have in life....please Greg.....don't take that away from me!

Greg that's cool if that's your OPINION! I really couldn't care what dudes thought either way. All I know is I get the same reaction when I hear a turntablist do an ill scratch that the rock dudes with long hair, substance addictions, and gender bending clothing styles do when they hear a guitar solo.....so to me a turntablist is a musician, and that's my opinion!

Performers, songwriters, producers, engineers, turntablists, etc. are ALL musicians because they contribute to the creation of music. The size/importance of their role can be discussed, but that's the truth.
There ain't more to it!

anders are we talking about definitions of musicians or definitions of musical instruments?

greg

Both...
Musicians create music and musical instruments are used in this process... That's my definition.