Audio quality/warmth

Hi guys!
I read almost daily this forum but i don't post very often.
Today i asked myself a question about a specific workflow.
I use a Zoom H2n to record a lot of sounds around and i usually process the file in Ableton Live before i transfer them to the MPC.
There are 2 ways to record the files to the computer:
-USB cable, simply copy/paste.
-Use the line out of the mic and record it through the audio interface (in my case a MOTU Ultralite Mk3).

Which is the best way to don't lose quality of the sound? The USB keeps intact the files but the MOTU has on board compressors, EQs and reverbs that can help to pre-process the sound.

Once the file are on my computer i'm used to process them in Ableton to make them sound like i want, and then i record them to the MPC.
Here the second question:
-USB mode from the computer to the MPC?
-Record the file with the analog input of the MPC to exploit the MPC converters and have the MPC sound from the beginning?

Which in your opinion is the best workflow? I tried different combinations but the only thing i've seen is the USB mode in the first step makes the work a lil bit faster.
P.s this topic doesn't want to be a flame digital vs. analog audio.

peace,
Mapo

Fist thoughts I have is, are the MOTU's FX able to be used in a DAW or only in a live recording sceanario? And are they superior to any VST/AUs you may have for the same tasks?

I generally would opt for direct copying/bouncing of digital files rather than record them in to skip one extra stage of A/D conversion.

But at the same time I sometimes run stuff through an analog mixer to impart some harmonic distortion and warmth like how all the Jungle records were done in the early 90s.

But generally I think it's best to limit how many A/D conversions you have as possible. Unless like the mixer example you have a very specific goal in mind and hear a pleasing difference. So again I guess it depends if the MOTU FX are better than ones you might apply to files that got into the computer without an extra A/D conversion stage.

Great question! I've always used the FX in live recording, for example to compress a bass guitar o to reverberate the Doepfer Dark Energy. I think there's a way to use the FX after the recording of the sound but i'm not sure. For the quality i think they are similar to other plugins. I like a lot the compressor (it emulates the LA-2A), but there are a lot of cool plugins that do similar stuff, Waves for example. Good observation about the numer of A/D conversions, if i use the "audio way" from the 2 options in the previous post i have a lot of conversions. If i use only USB i have no audio quality loss but maybe a colder sound. Maybe USB for the step mic to computer and analog audio from computer to MPC?

Mapo Heiwajima wrote:If i use only USB i have no audio quality loss but maybe a colder sound.

it is purely an aesthetical question of what sound you want to have at the end.

digital pureness (colder sound but crystal clear) or analog goddess (warmer sound because of amplified noise and added distortion) are just two sides of the same coin.

for decades the people tried to get all that noise and distortion out of their recording chains to get to a point where they have no loss in sound and no added noise after many stages of layering, copying and mixing. then came the digital age and that was all suddenly possible, with track counts up to the hundreds and processing galore, but the people then noticed that they did not like the clear, cold sound of this digital music, so they now went and introduced new ways of adding analog saturation and distortion from compressors to tapesimulations to their music to get back to the golden age... ...funny fact is that many of this "analog" comes in digital form now via va-synths and all that plugins that simulate older analog gear.

you see, it is all about taste and as we have both worlds now it is also all about decisions - what you do, what gear you use is all secondary - first goal is to make good music that sounds good to you!
if you intend to release your music commercially then there might be some aspects to look for, regarding formats and loudness to compete equal in the industrial process.

to publish a good song, first the song has to be good.

if you look how normal people consume their favourite music not much of it is hifi quality or even focussed listening, most music is consumed in the background, so the song has to work and be catchy to make pople like it. if you however want to make audiophile art then this is also entirely up to you and your musical craftsmanship.

analog or digital are just tools - the art is in the usage of the tools.

peace, jo

p.s.: analog rules!

Sounds funny and a lil bit crazy how humans are never satisfied (they have distortion they want the sound to be clean, the have digital tools and they want to go back to the distortion.).
Anyway you speak the truth, it's all about decision! Maybe after this few answers i think i'll make a mix of the 2 techniques, like transport via USB the file to the computer and then sample the file from the MPC with the analog inputs. I'm a little bit obsessive-compulsive for this kind of things so everything must be perfect and many times this behavior kills your creativity.

selecta jo wrote:

Mapo Heiwajima wrote:If i use only USB i have no audio quality loss but maybe a colder sound.

it is purely an aesthetical question of what sound you want to have at the end.

digital pureness (colder sound but crystal clear) or analog goddess (warmer sound because of amplified noise and added distortion) are just two sides of the same coin.

for decades the people tried to get all that noise and distortion out of their recording chains to get to a point where they have no loss in sound and no added noise after many stages of layering, copying and mixing. then came the digital age and that was all suddenly possible, with track counts up to the hundreds and processing galore, but the people then noticed that they did not like the clear, cold sound of this digital music, so they now went and introduced new ways of adding analog saturation and distortion from compressors to tapesimulations to their music to get back to the golden age... ...funny fact is that many of this "analog" comes in digital form now via va-synths and all that plugins that simulate older analog gear.

you see, it is all about taste and as we have both worlds now it is also all about decisions - what you do, what gear you use is all secondary - first goal is to make good music that sounds good to you!
if you intend to release your music commercially then there might be some aspects to look for, regarding formats and loudness to compete equal in the industrial process.

to publish a good song, first the song has to be good.

if you look how normal people consume their favourite music not much of it is hifi quality or even focussed listening, most music is consumed in the background, so the song has to work and be catchy to make pople like it. if you however want to make audiophile art then this is also entirely up to you and your musical craftsmanship.

analog or digital are just tools - the art is in the usage of the tools.

peace, jo

p.s.: analog rules!

WQell done Jo. I like to read common sense and you put it beautifully.

However, if you are recording then record clean with acres of headroom. The question is whether you want to apply a destructive process at tracking or later ITB. I always track clean and then process ITB. The only use I have ever found for efx on sound cards is when I am recordingb a video tutorial and I need the mic to sound live as opposed to no ambiance.

If you like the 'warm' sound then a decent pre, the mic, some esoteric analogue eq etc is the way to go. Don't bother with saturation efx on the sound card when tracking.

Thanks for the advices guys, much appreciated
peace,
Mapo

Yep, sometimes you have to print no matter what.

i didn't read everything in this thread... but I think you should hop through the menus on the zoom and make sure it's set to 24/96... and record using the zoom and then transfer onto the computer. The h2n is not like a normal mic.. it does mid side and all that stuff.. plus doesn't it have 4 or 5 mics built in? not something you want to record only the stereo line output of... you would want each separate track which if it works at all like the h6 then those will be saved on the card it's own folder.

Mapo Heiwajima wrote:Which in your opinion is the best workflow?

With the same setup as you I'd drag and drop from the Zoom to the computer, process them to get the sounds how you want, then drag them to the MPC hard drive. You won't get any noteworthy coloration by sampling direct into a 1K/2500, so it would just be another time-sapping step in the process to sample in and trim up the samples again.

Nice tune in your sig by the way.

@mr_debauch: The mid/side or the sorround mode is really cool and, in fact it will be lost using the normal stereo mode recording! Acute observation!

@Coz "You won't get any noteworthy coloration by sampling direct into a 1K/2500" ok, this was exactly what i wanted to know! Thank you also for the tune appreciation

This forum always gives me the answers!

Funny how that Zoom H2 still get`s mad love.Glad I bought that piece.

Got a Zoom R8 I probably powered up 2 or 3 times that I`m not using at all.I`m stuck with it because I waited too long to return it and I won`t resell it for crack head prices(YET)

Buyers Remorse<<<<<<<

Should`ve bought a H4 instead

S.I.C.K THE DRUMGOD wrote:Funny how that Zoom H2 still get`s mad love.Glad I bought that piece.

Got a Zoom R8 I probably powered up 2 or 3 times that I`m not using at all.I`m stuck with it because I waited too long to return it and I won`t resell it for crack head prices(YET)

Buyers Remorse<<<<<<<

Should`ve bought a H4 instead

yeah the h4n is nice... it really is a decent upgrade over the OG h4... that h6 is pretty sweet too, and it has loads of options but for out on the go it's a bit bulky... i'm still rocking the zoom Q3 (audio only.. I never use video) because I like the one or two options it has.. plus the mics are on a right angle at the top so you don't need to point the whole thing at stuff.