Can I use a Ren without looking at the computer screen?

DJ Hellfire wrote:I'm not missunderstanding anything.

Yes you are. But that's cool.

Either way, he asked a simple question. We answered it, simply. And that answer is no, you can not use the Ren without looking at the computer screen. We even gave examples to further assist. Whether or not that factors into him buying it is not really any of our concern. That's on him.

MaZe wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:I'm not missunderstanding anything.

Yes you are. But that's cool.

Either way, he asked a simple question. We answered it, simply. And that answer is no, you can not use the Ren without looking at the computer screen. We even gave examples to further assist. Whether or not that factors into him buying it is not really any of our concern. That's on him.

No, I'm not! I get what you guys are saying. It's just insignificant in the scheme of things.

I come from a hardware MPC background, just like most of you, for nearly 17 years. And I also heavily use the Ren just like many of you for the past several years. The user says he likes the fast and effective workflow of the 5000. In my experience using both types of products, the Ren is both faster AND more effective than any hardware MPC in nearly all aspects of sequencing, editing, mixing, and getting to a finished product because of the computer screen and mouse being paired with the hardware. But maybe that's just my "opinion". So that's that advice I'm giving him on his buying decision. But it's all good!

DJ Hellfire wrote:
In my experience using both types of products, the Ren is both faster AND more effective than any hardware MPC in nearly all aspects of sequencing, editing, mixing, and getting to a finished product because of the computer screen and mouse being paired with the hardware.

I have to agree and I own or have owned every MPC.

One of the advantages of having started out on MPCs when the 60 was an active product is that I saw each new model get released and understood the advantages it presented.

Not as easy to see when you have a multitude of them to look at and compare.

There's a fine line between making it more computer blind and limiting the workflow, let's hope they don't cross it.

funny how things change... one of the coveted features of the MV8000 was the ability to add a monitor and mouse so you wouldn't have to look at the hardware screen. after roland quit selling the expansion card, cats had to rely on ebay and spend an arm and leg or either make their own.

now one of the coveted features of maschine is the ability to not have to look at a monitor. who would have figured?

but at the end of the day I guess it's better to have the option to work whichever way one prefers... speaking of which, is there currently any way to solo/un-solo midi tracks from the hardware?

son of man wrote:but at the end of the day I guess it's better to have the option to work whichever way one prefers... speaking of which, is there currently any way to solo/un-solo midi tracks from the hardware?

Only on the main screen (for now), just like with any old MPC's!

100% agree with everything else you said by the way! Crazy ain't it?

For sample editing I cannot see the advantage of doing it in the ren's lcd. The 24" are so confortable.

How do you feel about maschines non monitor workflow vs Ren/Studio's. I have no problem with having to rely on the monitor with the studio, but maschines no monitor workflow is really impressive.

I will try it again with mpc studio since the LCD doesn't seem to garble anymore.

TT_Lab wrote:For sample editing I cannot see the advantage of doing it in the ren's lcd. The 24" are so confortable.

It's because some people aren't happy unless they are swimming up stream.

For me, looking at the computer screen is a total different thing than using the mouse.
I really love to control everything from the hardware looking to the computer screen for editing and event adjusting (where the mouse is necesary) etc...

TT_Lab wrote:For me, looking at the computer screen is a total different thing than using the mouse.
I really love to control everything from the hardware looking to the computer screen for editing and event adjusting (where the mouse is necesary) etc...

Nailed it.

kaydigi wrote:but machines no monitor workflow is really impressive.

I think this is basically the point of the thread and one that the Ren can't replicate because of the screen they shipped it with and how the software is displayed.

It harks back to what I was saying before the Ren even dropped. Essentially, if you can't sit the Ren in front of a big screen (through keyboards, mice, trackpads, other DAW controllers being in the way) then your ergonomics are screwed.

The LCD on the Ren was an afterthought which hopefully they'll sort out ASAP.

kaydigi wrote:How do you feel about maschines non monitor workflow vs Ren/Studio's. I have no problem with having to rely on the monitor with the studio, but maschines no monitor workflow is really impressive.

I will try it again with mpc studio since the LCD doesn't seem to garble anymore.

I have the Maschine MKI and I find it very difficult to not rely on the screen. But I have not used a Maschine Studio yet. Sure that one is much better.

As far as the Ren goes, there's not much that can't be done on the hardware that I actually want to do from the hardware. I think instinctively, as an MPC user, I want to reach for the pads to name shit. But in actuality, I HATE naming shit from the pads. Takes like 20 times longer. So I was glad to have a keyboard to type shit with. I was happy to have a piano roll editor to easily see and edit my notes more than one at a time instead of one by one in list edit or JJOS' feeble grid edit. I was happy to have my sample waveform HUGE as **** in stereo on my computer screen to see more detail. Happy as **** to have nicer meters to look at. And that's just a few things. All the advantages you get from the screen and mouse, IMO, largely outweigh the list of things missing from legacy MPC's. And for the most part, you can just adjust from the hardware while looking at the screen. There's not a single legacy feature that would make me switch back.

TT_Lab wrote:For me, looking at the computer screen is a total different thing than using the mouse.
I really love to control everything from the hardware looking to the computer screen for editing and event adjusting (where the mouse is necesary) etc...

Exactly!

Coz wrote:

kaydigi wrote:but machines no monitor workflow is really impressive.

I think this is basically the point of the thread and one that the Ren can't replicate because of the screen they shipped it with and how the software is displayed.

It harks back to what I was saying before the Ren even dropped. Essentially, if you can't sit the Ren in front of a big screen (through keyboards, mice, trackpads, other DAW controllers being in the way) then your ergonomics are screwed.

The LCD on the Ren was an afterthought which hopefully they'll sort out ASAP.

Agreed for the most part. I'd say as of 1.7, about 98% of actual work related tasks can be done from the hardware. Basically, anything a hardware MPC can do from the hardware, the Ren can. The list of software only functions is really very small.

As the original poster, I have to admit I have had a Maschine mk1 for years. I understand that naming with a keyboard is very convenient. Piano roll editing to move something is far easier than hardware LCD. No question about these.

The reason I still use a hardware MPC is the design of pads and tracks. A track can be a whole tom kit of 4 or 5 samples each mapped to separate pads. All toms in the track can be muted or unmuted anytime in a single step because they are in 1 track. But Maschine limits you to the sample and pad. You have to put the toms into a new group and mute or unmute that group to do the same thing. Now we're muting pads or groups. You know this, but its a reason I prefer the MPC design.

My original question is basically what did the software developers leave out of the hardware, because we all know you can't trust the name Akai to do everything you assume it would do.

I like the 1.7 architecture change to midi events on pads and the programs are audio streams. This makes total sense. It seems that most common tasks can be done with the hardware. But if you have to go to the software to trim a sample, stretch it, or tweak the filter, then the hardware is a toy addon to the software. That's what I am trying to work out.

B