MPC Ren: Better Than I Expected

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum, but not to the MPC world. I owned a MPC 2000XL, but sold it over a decade ago. I was also a big user of the Yamaha RS7000 at one point in time. My passion is deejaying and producing underground Deep House music. However, due to the fact that I have been playing the guitar, bass and trumpet for over 30 years, I do enjoy other genres of music, such as Funk, Soul, Jazz and Blues.

Like many, over the years I have used various software approaches to music production, such as Reason, Studio One, Acid Pro and Cubase. However, I never truly felt connected with the workflow processes of them. Since the availability of REs, Reason, with an MPK 49, has been my main production tool.

Although I wanted a new, dedicated hardware sampler/groove box, the only one on the market that I would consider purchasing, at this time, is the Elektron Octatrack, but it is on back order, for several months, at the stores where I shop. So, I reluctantly purchased a MPC Ren and it sat in the box, unopened, for almost a month.

Today, I finally took it out of the box and to my surprise I love it! I really enjoy the fact that I can control everything from the hardware unit and close my laptop screen. After a few minutes, I totally forgot that I was working with a hybrid setup. The integration between the software and controller is very tight. Also, the built-in soundcard helps add to the overall experience, in my opinion, due to the fact that I can connect a mic, headphones, speakers, usb drive and turntable directly to the unit.

I actually purchased a NI Maschine twice in the past and both times, like the MPC Ren, they sat in the box, unopened for about a month, but I sent them both back to the store. Overall, I am glad I wanted for the MPC Ren.

With all that's been stated, I truly hope Akai will release another dedicated hardware MPC in the future. Yes, I am an old school gear junkie at heart. Neverthless, whether it happens or not, I am going to keep enjoying the MPC Ren in the meantime.

T-Funk wrote:With all that's been stated, I truly hope Akai will release another dedicated hardware MPC in the future.

What is stopping you to get one now? MPC60, 500, 2000/XL, 3000, 2500, 4000, 5000... pick your favorite. I don't think they'll ever release another stand-alone MPC, might be wrong tho...

They have already shown a prototype of a new standalone MPC, with an Intel PC mainboard inside a Renaissance, running some variant of MPC Software on embedded Windows 8.

We will probably see what that prototype has developed into at Winter NAMM in January.

Yeah i've seen that. Not really a classic stand alone MPC in my opinion. It's running windows... where's the big difference there to just connecting a ren to a laptop, and then i'm even free to decide what OS i'm running on that laptop, etc.

A true stand-alone MPC (in my opinion) would be along the lines of the older models. A hardware unit running a dedicated OS and not some windows hybrid clone MPC. Just my opinion, but that's not really a stand alone MPC, it's just a REN with a laptop shoved up its ass...

Would not really be that much different to an older standalone MPC, just much more up to date and powerful, in my opinion.

It wouldn't be a normal Windows environment, but stripped down embedded Windows, dedicated to MPC operation, you probably shouldn't be able to tell that it is running on Windows

SimonInAustralia wrote:Would not really be that much different to an older standalone MPC, just much more up to date and powerful, in my opinion.

It wouldn't be a normal Windows environment, but stripped down embedded Windows, dedicated to MPC operation, you probably shouldn't be able to tell that it is running on Windows

Agreed, Windows Embedded is just a means to an end, a framework to build your own custom app on top of. no one would even know they are in a 'windows' environment. Windows Embedded is used for most ATM machines, I don't think anyone for one moment realises they are in a Windows environment when drawing out cash.

The Akai developers could even make it look like an old school MPC OS if they really wanted to, could even be a 'legacy skin' option

I think we're going a little off topic with this. OP basically just wanted to say he enjoys the REN and is happy. That's nice!

But hey, it's semi related to the thread i guess, so who cares...

I just cringe when i hear windows based. Probably some marketing bullshit and money involved with microsoft. What would be so difficult to make a standalone mpc with a dedicated OS instead of an embeded windows version? It's basically a controller with a PC shoved inside, you can turn that in all kind of directions you want, at the end of the day that's what it's gonna be.

People scream: "We want a standalone MPC again!", to which Akais answer is: "Here, we made one for you, we just took the OS you were running on your laptop, and the MPC software, and shoved it inside a controller for you, we call it Franken-Ren and it will need to connect to the internet every once in a while do download the newest windows updates!"... yeah, **** that BS.

MPC-Tutor wrote:

SimonInAustralia wrote:Agreed, Windows Embedded is just a means to an end, a framework to build your own custom app on top of. no one would even know they are in a 'windows' environment. Windows Embedded is used for most ATM machines, I don't think anyone for one moment realises they are in a Windows environment when drawing out cash.

Except for the people who happend to see an "out of order" ATM displaying a windows bluescreen.

Embedded Windows as the OS platform makes it easier to implement, and more powerful.

PC hardware is more powerful than the dedicated processors that might be used.

MPC Software is now fairly well developed, and development is only going to continue.

No different having to update embedded Windows and MPC Software than having to update firmware on an older standalone MPC.

I think it is time to get over the hate towards Akai going to the controller/computer model for MPCs, it isn't going to change, this is hopefully going to give the same standalone MPC experience.

Not going to argue with that. You all might be right. It sure will be more powerful.

It will ultimately be more prone to needing updates and running into bugs, compared to a "real" standalone mpc. Again, you can try to call that whatever you want, but at the end of the day it's not standalone just because you don't have to connect it to a laptop anymore... the laptop is simply inside the controller but it's still there. It's not even a bad idea... makes the working space less cluttered and the laptop can be used for playing movies instead... but it's still a controller connected to a computer running software... all kind of things can go wrong with that compared to a simple standalone legacy MPC.

Again, i'm not gonna argue it's not going to be powerful and full of possibilities, but it's what it is... a windows computer running software with an MPC controller built around it.

PS:

SimonInAustralia wrote:No different having to update embedded Windows and MPC Software than having to update firmware on an older standalone MPC.

I had to update my MPC500 once when i bought it. Never had to update the MPC60 (OS is on chips), never had to update the 2KXL, never had to update the 2500, never had to update the sp1200, never had to update the ASR-10, never had to update the E-mu E4X... I own some of these since over five years, not a single update. Now, how often do i need to update windows and the MPC software?

PS2:

SimonInAustralia wrote:I think it is time to get over the hate towards Akai going to the controller/computer model for MPCs, it isn't going to change, this is hopefully going to give the same standalone MPC experience.

Has nothing to do with hate. I simply stated that i think another real standalone MPC from Akai isn't going to happen anymore. You basically just said it yourself: "akai going to the controller/computer model for MPCs". ..."hopefully the same standalone MPC "experience""... which is not a true stand alone MPC, even if the "experience" might feel the same, until that bluescreen pops in your face.

jibber wrote:

T-Funk wrote:With all that's been stated, I truly hope Akai will release another dedicated hardware MPC in the future.

What is stopping you to get one now? MPC60, 500, 2000/XL, 3000, 2500, 4000, 5000... pick your favorite. I don't think they'll ever release another stand-alone MPC, might be wrong tho...

I only purchase products new. If I could have found a new, ITB hardware MPC, I would have gladly purchased it.

SimonInAustralia wrote:They have already shown a prototype of a new standalone MPC, with an Intel PC mainboard inside a Renaissance, running some variant of MPC Software on embedded Windows 8.

We will probably see what that prototype has developed into at Winter NAMM in January.

I noticed the video on youtube and was debating whether or not to wait until its release. I am definitely interested if it becomes available to consumers.

As an Embedded Software Engineer, I am interested to see how well the embedded Windows 8 is going to be optimized.

jibber wrote:It will ultimately be more prone to needing updates and running into bugs, compared to a "real" standalone mpc. Again, you can try to call that whatever you want, but at the end of the day it's not standalone just because you don't have to connect it to a laptop anymore... the laptop is simply inside the controller but it's still there. It's not even a bad idea... makes the working space less cluttered and the laptop can be used for playing movies instead... but it's still a controller connected to a computer running software... all kind of things can go wrong with that compared to a simple standalone legacy MPC.

More prone to bugs, only due to the greater complexity of what it is, and what it can do.

It would be a real standalone MPC.

An older standalone MPC is exactly the same, a processor, with storage subsystem, a control surface, and audio/MIDI I/O, running an OS, and as many have experienced, just as prone to bugs and poorly implemented programming as anything else.

jibber wrote:Again, i'm not gonna argue it's not going to be powerful and full of possibilities, but it's what it is... a windows computer running software with an MPC controller built around it.

I really don't see it as any different to a dedicated processor running software with an MPC controller built around it.

jibber wrote:I had to update my MPC500 once when i bought it. Never had to update the MPC60 (OS is on chips), never had to update the 2KXL, never had to update the 2500, never had to update the sp1200, never had to update the ASR-10, never had to update the E-mu E4X... I own some of these since over five years, not a single update. Now, how often do i need to update windows and the MPC software?

If you bought any of those when first released, while the OS was still in development, you would have had to update the OS after you bought it, to bring them up to the latest versions.

Most of those are well over 5 years old, and well past the end of their software development cycle, so there is obviously no need to update them, if already running the final OS.

If you buy a Windows embedded standalone MPC after the development cycle has finished, you similarly would not have to update it.

jibber wrote:I simply stated that i think another real standalone MPC from Akai isn't going to happen anymore. You basically just said it yourself: "akai going to the controller/computer model for MPCs". ..."hopefully the same standalone MPC "experience""... which is not a true stand alone MPC, even if the "experience" might feel the same, until that bluescreen pops in your face.

I think it is going to be another real standalone MPC.

The controller/computer model just separated the controller out from the processor, storage, and I/O, this would put them back together.

T-Funk wrote:

jibber wrote:I only purchase products new. If I could have found a new, ITB hardware MPC, I would have gladly purchased it.

Armens (guy on ebay) is selling brand new MPC2500s still sealed in the box for about the same price you paid for a new one back in the day.

windows embeded in not a realtime operating system. timing is not guaranteed. being 'tight' is not about having a powerfull cpu, its about being on time, every time.

hardware mpcs are designed from the ground up with the assumption that audio isn't supposed to skip. audio in windows is an afterthought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system

mpc60,3000, 2000 os are hand written in assembly code, which should make them completely deterministic if done right.

mpc1000 and later are either written from scratch in a language like C or based on a realtime OS from hitatchi(renesas) they are tight as hell, if not completly deterministic.

windows, mac and linux are general purpose operating systems that make no guarantees about timing. if you have a fast enough machine, the samples will be sent to the sound card on time. (linux has some realtime capabilities though).

putting a pc inside a Renaissance will not make it into a 'real' mpc, sorry.

**** anythging that isnt windows

with that being said
glad u enjoyed mpc bwhahahh