some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums, cop

Technical questions for the MPC2000xl and the MPC2000
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Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By THE ADVERSARY Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:23 pm
Hththt555 wrote:i am scared of song mode and step edit... :roll: scared to fuxk up my fresh creation by user error... happend a few times now

i usually try a 8-16 bar raw drum sequence thats looped, multiply to add some samples, bass with enough variation not to sound like a loop, again multiply and add live playing like piano, synthesizer etc

so my approach is: re-play anytthing as long as it takes to make it sit and groove.
So lots of undo/replaying etc

just have to involve multiple Sequences as i think thats the best when it comes to mixdown.


Song Mode can't mess up your creation since it doesn't change anything about it, the Patterns are simply grouped as you tell it to.
The Patterns you created should still exist however they were.

The real key is to have some form of mental outline for what you are trying to do and build it.
You can really quickly create short patterns for various changes within your song or play longer pieces if that's what you need.
Then go into song mode and lay them out and convert them to one long sequence that you then add pieces to help glue it together by recording with TC off.

Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Hththt555 Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:34 pm
THE ADVERSARY wrote:
Hththt555 wrote:at closer observation i often find myself with uneven BARS numbers... often 7 Bars instead of 8 for example.

do any of you guys use a multitrack for live overdubbing or use samples only mostly in the mpc?


Most of us outgrew the 2kxl a long time ago so we have MPCs that allow you to use Audio Tracks, resample the output, record long samples in realtime etc so that allows for multitrack and/or overdubbing.

Then there are those who use the 2k with a DAW.
We still may have 2k/2kxl units around but it's more nostalgic than anything.

If you really are considering a multitrack recorder get a digital unit that supports .wav files then you can record to them and import that back into the 2kxl for building.



not my approach. i used to make Music with DAW and some quite extended outboard arsenal, and these days i am keep it out of the DAW completely until its really time to digitize a song..

thats why i record to 1/4" tape
and thats why only multitrack cassette/tape will probably to my taste... but i ll keeping it out for now. less is more..... no one needs all this stuff and a DAW and plugs etc etc to actually make good music ;)



+ i wouldnt want a new mpc with audio tracks / multitrack functions... much more menus, much too fiddly. a multitrack should be rec. and play. and some pan/Vol with real knobs (imho)

Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By JVC Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:55 pm
...
i am scared of song mode and step edit... :roll: scared to fuxk up my fresh creation by user error... happened a few times now

I use step edit a lot. Otherwise, I cannot record sequence on 2000XL without TC off otherwise! I'm not a good finger drummer, so I always have to correct some steps after recording. Step edit helps me not to rely on TC.

If you are worried about making mistake during step edit mode, then you should make duplicate of the sequence somewhere, you can have maximum of 128 sequence, so just make duplicate (making snapshot of the sequence), and if you mess up with in step edit, just copy back the snapshot.

TC correction can be applied on any recorded tracks, so I usually apply TC with swing after recording tracks.

For song mode, song mode cannot mess up sequences.
I think it is easier to have a lot of short sequences and have them linked with song mode afterwards. A long sequence makes harder to edit tracks as well. To be honest, I don't see any benefit having one song as one sequcence, as opposed to having a song using song mode.

Lampdog wrote:Mpc only reads track assignments in the very first seq when playing in song mode. You should have your tracks lined up for all sequences.

seq1 - trk1/bass - trk2/kick - trk3/horn - trk4/piano - trk5/snr - trk6/tuba - trk7/hihat
seq2 - trk1/bass - trk2/kick - trk3/horn - trk4/piano - trk5/snr - trk6/tuba - trk7/hihat
seq3 - trk1/bass - trk2/kick - trk3/horn - trk4/piano - trk5/snr - trk6/tuba - trk7/hihat
seq4 - trk1/bass - trk2/kick - trk3/horn - trk4/piano - trk5/snr - trk6/tuba - trk7/hihat

If you do this you'll get correct playback in song mode.

I didn't know that they have to be lined up (I should verify that, I never had problem with song mode), but I always line up all tracks for all sequences like above shown, so I never had issue with song mode on MPC-2000XL.

Lampdog wrote:[color=gold]Don't need kick seq3 trk2? Fine, leave that trk as kick but don't record a kick on it./color]

Or just mute the track on the sequence. As far as I remember this worked in song mode:

seq1 - trk1/bass - trk2/kick - trk3/horn - (Mute ON) trk4/piano
seq2 - trk1/bass - trk2/kick - trk3/horn - (Mute OFF) trk4/piano

Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Hththt555 Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:03 pm
interesting! good advice with duplicating the Seq.

yes sooner or later i will dive into step edit. But i dont see a problem with redo until its good. also i want to train my playing with Piano and similar, so this is a more musician approach for me.

with messing up i meant that there seem to be lots of small thing that can be done wrong in the mpc wich adds chaos. At least for me... for example, i am still having one problem when loading my tracks.
i have PGMS with sounds and SEQ in a folder for each song of course. But when i load these into the Ram, i always have to reassign the PGM`s to the correct Drum Program after loaded. Dunno why...


or i could mess up if i am not following the right routine with adding/erasing and copying bars... such stuff.... so i try to keep those steps simple and do most stuff with real playing.

TC is by now 95% of the time off in my case
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Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Lampdog Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:17 pm
Froggy meaning, adventurous, to "hop" on some deep experimenting and proceed to get busy. :lol: :lol:

@ JVC, yep, mute the way you described works fine, lined up tracks work fine, all that is good.

Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Hththt555 Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:24 pm
Lampdog wrote:Froggy meaning, adventurous, to "hop" on some deep experimenting and proceed to get busy. :lol: :lol:

@ JVC, yep, mute the way you described works fine, lined up tracks work fine, all that is good.


ah man.. my non-native english. Always think something sounds rude haha...

Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Hththt555 Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:21 pm
someone happens to know whats my issue with loading/assignment?
i think when saving APS its okay but i prefer saving PGM with sounds..

when i made a tune, save and load SEQ's and PGM's the assignment is wrong.

do i have to save the mpc system bin or something?
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Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Lampdog Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:00 pm
APS stands for all programs and sounds.
APS = ALL, PGM SEQ, WAV, SND, mixer settings, song settings and what PGM's are saved in what DRUMS.

It will place your PGM's back into the correct DRUMS (4 DRUMS).
When you load individual PGM you are manually responsible for placing those PGM's into the correct DRUM.
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Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By THE ADVERSARY Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:30 pm
Hththt555 wrote:
not my approach. i used to make Music with DAW and some quite extended outboard arsenal, and these days i am keep it out of the DAW completely until its really time to digitize a song..

thats why i record to 1/4" tape
and thats why only multitrack cassette/tape will probably to my taste... but i ll keeping it out for now. less is more..... no one needs all this stuff and a DAW and plugs etc etc to actually make good music ;)



+ i wouldnt want a new mpc with audio tracks / multitrack functions... much more menus, much too fiddly. a multitrack should be rec. and play. and some pan/Vol with real knobs (imho)



I was speaking in the sense of creating and structuring within the MPC to build your song to track out.
Everything you do inside any MPC is multitrack, it's the whole layout of the MPC.
Not being able to resample on a MPC takes away a lot of potential for building inside the MPC due to polyphony.
Having a digital device that supports .wav files allows you to have the ability to resample even with a MPC that lacks that function.

Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Hththt555 Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:30 pm
Lampdog wrote:APS stands for all programs and sounds.
APS = ALL, PGM SEQ, WAV, SND, mixer settings, song settings and what PGM's are saved in what DRUMS.

It will place your PGM's back into the correct DRUMS (4 DRUMS).
When you load individual PGM you are manually responsible for placing those PGM's into the correct DRUM.



yes but the fact that it wont allow to load an APS to some (for example freshly made sample PGM) into the Ram, makes it a bit unflexible no?

Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Hththt555 Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:35 pm
THE ADVERSARY wrote:

I was speaking in the sense of creating and structuring within the MPC to build your song to track out.
Everything you do inside any MPC is multitrack, it's the whole layout of the MPC.
Not being able to resample on a MPC takes away a lot of potential for building inside the MPC due to polyphony.
Having a digital device that supports .wav files allows you to have the ability to resample even with a MPC that lacks that function.



yes true. but not much of problem with midi multitracking.
just trying to decide if i wanna do cassette multitrack again and to some re-micing of sounds (organ for example) or if i want to minimize even further and do without
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Re: some song basics for the 2kxl / arranging complex drums,

By Lampdog Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:38 pm
Hththt555 wrote:yes but the fact that it wont allow to load an APS to some (for example freshly made sample PGM) into the Ram, makes it a bit unflexible no?

MPC cannot read across folders, you will need everything for 1 project in the same folder.

Example:

PGM. You want to load a PGM, well you need to have all it's associated files in the same folder.

APS. You want to load an APS, well you need to have all it's associated files in the same folder.

ALL. You want to load an ALL, well you need to have it in the same folder as all the samples, and PGM files.

Project1
- APS, ALL, PGM, *.MID, *.WAV, *.WAV, *.SND

Project2
- APS, ALL, PGM, *.MID, *.WAV, *.WAV, *.SND

If you load a PGM from Project1 MPC cannot read a sample from the Project2 folder and load in there. Has to be in the same folder.


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