By Romanp
Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:13 pm
Hey everyone,
I have tried to make music many ways. Keyboard into computer sequencer triggering hardware sampler, MPC60II triggering all my MIDI sound sources etc. I've been playing into a Motif XF7 the last few years.
But my favourite interface is the MPC60II.
I can sit at it and play it like a video game. I can program drum patterns that have been transcribed note for note from a song. I can get creative mind flow because every function becomes an automatic sequence of button pushes like typing without thinking. I don't like computers for music making for the opposite reasons.
If I had a higher ppqn and timing correct/quantise strength on the 60II it would be a dream machine. But I also like the ability of the 4K and 5K to mute tracks with pads and more importantly switch sequences with pads.
My philosophy is to have drum patterns that could reconstruct a typical songs drum groove by having the intro fill, main A, Main B, Fill A, Fill B etc. Just as a crude example. But when I transcribe songs played by drummers they kind of conform to this.
Then I could play the order of the sequences live, switching to a fill or Main pattern B intuitively.
I can do this on the 60II but only by entering numbers and pressing enter.
The ultimate sequencing scenario I envisage is being able to play the sequence order live with pads and having all non drum/percussion instruments that are chromatic like pianos, bass etc on a separate linear sequence. I think I could do this on my 60II by using the 2nd seq function to play a sequence with all the chromatic instruments playing linearly from start to finish. I like to keep things simple and play baselines and chords from start to finish to have the live not looped feel.
I've been reading the 5K and 4k pdf manuals tonight and focussing on the sequencer functions. Not too hard to get through all the info in a short time.
Well, the 5000 will allow me to switch sequences with pads, I can switch sequences on the next measure instead of at the end of the playing sequence by using the next sequence for next bar button (F3).
That is super dope funky fresh because I could have Main A and Main B patterns that are 8 or whatever bars long so they can include subtle pattern variations but still be the main groove instead of being limited to having a 2 bar loop of the main groove so that I can switch to a fill and then another pattern Whenever I want. With next bar I can have long sequences with subtle variations and switch whenever I want at the next measure. Dope mayne!
I don't think you can record the pad switching sequence. I would have to reference an audio recording to recreate the switching arrangement. Or…
Using program changes to switch sequences. Super dope again. I could have regions in my DAW representing each pattern start containing the corresponding program number and do the arranging in the DAW arrange screen. Play it back with the MPC slaving to MIDI beat clock and have the arrangement visually represented and editable in the DAW arrange.
Maybe I can figure out other ways to send program change numbers to switch the MPC sequences like from the Motif or something. Might meditate on that one.
Sooo, really I just want to be able to play and step enter drum patterns on the 5000 which also has the grid and step enter modes and then chain them or switch them live with pads.
The 60II is famed for a sloppy or groovy timing even when fully quantised but I am intellectually and practically attracted to playing the feel as good as I can on each drum instrument with a greater MIDI timing resolution like the Motif's 480ppqn and then quantising by differing strengths. Retaining some human feel.
It actually seems absurd to me that the 4000 only allows quantise to be off or on. That means your choice of timing for drums is essentially rigid computer timing or nothing. Maybe you could quantise the hihats and play the other drums live unquantised. But I think most will agree that it is near impossible to get a drummers tight or groovy timing on an MPC without timing correct. Regardless, I need quantise strength these days. Timing is everything for feel.
It seems the 4000 is also missing the next sequence to next bar function and the program change number to sequence function. Full disclosure, I trigger a Z8 and an S950. So I have the MPC4000 sound engine with all the extras it allows.
I guess I am posting to get some warm fuzzy reassurance that the 5000 will satisfy my humble requirements of sequencing drums and switching them etc without prohibitive bugs or something..
I don't need the internal sampler, virtual synth, HD audio recorder, effects etc etc. Just the dope sequencer and MPC user interface.
Please don't give me bugs or something to ruin my dream. I will just have to master drum sequencing on the Motif with a MPC style drum pad controller and forego the independent linear and pattern jamming.
I note the 4000 also has a simul seq function allowing a second sequence to play along with the current one. I wonder if the pad switching still works in that mode or if you are limited to switching with the jog wheel/increment buttons.
What else?
Yeah that's my vision. The 5K with drum patterns switchable independent of the Motif sequencing all chromatic instruments linearly. Unless I want to do some more loop oriented music like house or golden era sampled based boom bap hip hop. I envision jamming with musicians playing instruments and switching the patterns like a drummer. Neo soul, vintage funk, reggae. Should be pretty intuitive after a while.
Is the 5K missing anything that the 4K has that I covet? Hmmm, yes it seems that so far I can't find a simultaneous second sequence function on the 5K. I may be mistaken but I looked fairly thoroughly. Even the 60II has this. Far from a deal breaker though as I intend on sequencing linearly on the Motif. Or I could convert a song to sequence on the 5K and add linear tracks to that. It means committing to a drum arrangement though.
The 5K looks promising and I am excited. Really, money and all these other factors people debate doesn't matter to me as much as being able to comfortably stay in a creative right brain state of mind and I get that sitting at my 60II. I just hope I can get the same thing from a 5K and all the features I have mentioned work without issues.
Lastly, I sync to a DAW for adding audio.
Peace out,
Roman.
I have tried to make music many ways. Keyboard into computer sequencer triggering hardware sampler, MPC60II triggering all my MIDI sound sources etc. I've been playing into a Motif XF7 the last few years.
But my favourite interface is the MPC60II.
I can sit at it and play it like a video game. I can program drum patterns that have been transcribed note for note from a song. I can get creative mind flow because every function becomes an automatic sequence of button pushes like typing without thinking. I don't like computers for music making for the opposite reasons.
If I had a higher ppqn and timing correct/quantise strength on the 60II it would be a dream machine. But I also like the ability of the 4K and 5K to mute tracks with pads and more importantly switch sequences with pads.
My philosophy is to have drum patterns that could reconstruct a typical songs drum groove by having the intro fill, main A, Main B, Fill A, Fill B etc. Just as a crude example. But when I transcribe songs played by drummers they kind of conform to this.
Then I could play the order of the sequences live, switching to a fill or Main pattern B intuitively.
I can do this on the 60II but only by entering numbers and pressing enter.
The ultimate sequencing scenario I envisage is being able to play the sequence order live with pads and having all non drum/percussion instruments that are chromatic like pianos, bass etc on a separate linear sequence. I think I could do this on my 60II by using the 2nd seq function to play a sequence with all the chromatic instruments playing linearly from start to finish. I like to keep things simple and play baselines and chords from start to finish to have the live not looped feel.
I've been reading the 5K and 4k pdf manuals tonight and focussing on the sequencer functions. Not too hard to get through all the info in a short time.
Well, the 5000 will allow me to switch sequences with pads, I can switch sequences on the next measure instead of at the end of the playing sequence by using the next sequence for next bar button (F3).
That is super dope funky fresh because I could have Main A and Main B patterns that are 8 or whatever bars long so they can include subtle pattern variations but still be the main groove instead of being limited to having a 2 bar loop of the main groove so that I can switch to a fill and then another pattern Whenever I want. With next bar I can have long sequences with subtle variations and switch whenever I want at the next measure. Dope mayne!
I don't think you can record the pad switching sequence. I would have to reference an audio recording to recreate the switching arrangement. Or…
Using program changes to switch sequences. Super dope again. I could have regions in my DAW representing each pattern start containing the corresponding program number and do the arranging in the DAW arrange screen. Play it back with the MPC slaving to MIDI beat clock and have the arrangement visually represented and editable in the DAW arrange.
Maybe I can figure out other ways to send program change numbers to switch the MPC sequences like from the Motif or something. Might meditate on that one.
Sooo, really I just want to be able to play and step enter drum patterns on the 5000 which also has the grid and step enter modes and then chain them or switch them live with pads.
The 60II is famed for a sloppy or groovy timing even when fully quantised but I am intellectually and practically attracted to playing the feel as good as I can on each drum instrument with a greater MIDI timing resolution like the Motif's 480ppqn and then quantising by differing strengths. Retaining some human feel.
It actually seems absurd to me that the 4000 only allows quantise to be off or on. That means your choice of timing for drums is essentially rigid computer timing or nothing. Maybe you could quantise the hihats and play the other drums live unquantised. But I think most will agree that it is near impossible to get a drummers tight or groovy timing on an MPC without timing correct. Regardless, I need quantise strength these days. Timing is everything for feel.
It seems the 4000 is also missing the next sequence to next bar function and the program change number to sequence function. Full disclosure, I trigger a Z8 and an S950. So I have the MPC4000 sound engine with all the extras it allows.
I guess I am posting to get some warm fuzzy reassurance that the 5000 will satisfy my humble requirements of sequencing drums and switching them etc without prohibitive bugs or something..
I don't need the internal sampler, virtual synth, HD audio recorder, effects etc etc. Just the dope sequencer and MPC user interface.
Please don't give me bugs or something to ruin my dream. I will just have to master drum sequencing on the Motif with a MPC style drum pad controller and forego the independent linear and pattern jamming.
I note the 4000 also has a simul seq function allowing a second sequence to play along with the current one. I wonder if the pad switching still works in that mode or if you are limited to switching with the jog wheel/increment buttons.
What else?
Yeah that's my vision. The 5K with drum patterns switchable independent of the Motif sequencing all chromatic instruments linearly. Unless I want to do some more loop oriented music like house or golden era sampled based boom bap hip hop. I envision jamming with musicians playing instruments and switching the patterns like a drummer. Neo soul, vintage funk, reggae. Should be pretty intuitive after a while.
Is the 5K missing anything that the 4K has that I covet? Hmmm, yes it seems that so far I can't find a simultaneous second sequence function on the 5K. I may be mistaken but I looked fairly thoroughly. Even the 60II has this. Far from a deal breaker though as I intend on sequencing linearly on the Motif. Or I could convert a song to sequence on the 5K and add linear tracks to that. It means committing to a drum arrangement though.
The 5K looks promising and I am excited. Really, money and all these other factors people debate doesn't matter to me as much as being able to comfortably stay in a creative right brain state of mind and I get that sitting at my 60II. I just hope I can get the same thing from a 5K and all the features I have mentioned work without issues.
Lastly, I sync to a DAW for adding audio.
Peace out,
Roman.