AKAI SUPPORTER SINCE 1992

bliprock wrote:JPEG has not seen the linnstrument then I see

ok just looked this up and while to his credit it is usb

that shit while mildy innovative u would not sell ur mpc ren for that; and the mpc touch is way more impressive than the linninstrument.

so this further adds weight to my assertion that dude is out of touch (pun intended) cos dat shit aint selling;

if it were that great and revolutionary ud see it in all the studios and would be more widely adopted.

the fact its not in wider use suggests it has little practical value; but again that does not discredit his inventiveness of linn.

but linn is a guy who makes novelty instruments at this point in career; as opposed to commercially viable mass production instruments.

again prolly abelton push or the launch pad pro would allow u to do the same thing as the linninstrument

JPEG what the other dude I believe was saying is that your arguments are based on assumptions, or appear to be. You set up your point by saying that the Ren and studio sold heavy units... Unless you work for akai that's a big assumption for various reasons. If observation from what you hear or from people talking about how they love it or from YouTube videos, then your argument loses relevancy. how many got returned? How many are back in the box because the owner thought it was garbage? Sales is nothing more than a reflection of interest (at least at first), but adoption is a reflection of utility, and is therefore a more useful measure of how in touch a company really is.

That being said I sort of agree with your opinion about Roger Linn. His products seem more novelty to me, but I'm not going to assume that he's out of touch. I don't know him, so I can't make that statement. For all I know he may WANT to develop novelty products. Or legally he may have to design products (not release, just design) to maintain his patent(s). Not the first time someone maintains their IP that way. Maybe he's really the smart one here. For every unit I sell through my own label I make as much money as I would if I sold 9000 units on a larger label. Could be similar for Linn. But like you said, maybe he's just the old lumbering inventor with a desire to make a commercially lauded product, but no clue how to get there.

In my opinion just because Akai makes a touchscreen MPC doesn't mean they are in touch with what people want or need. For commercially producing music, there are tons of things that would be more useful than a touch screen. That's not enough to say they're out of touch, but at the same time it's enough to question if they really are.

@Eyalc all fair points

jpeg wrote:simply because u dislike my conclusions that does not make my assertions clueless; it just means u are unwilling to look at the evidence from which my conclusions were reached.

Keep the GCSE level philosophy jpeg. It's obvious to anyone who can read that you're not the sharpest tool, so your opinions carry no weight. Posting videos from the evolutionary dead end that is "ya boy Dee" also points to the fact that you have a predilection for known idiots. That numpty would buy a turd if it had an Akai badge on it, and I suspect you would too.

Coz wrote:

jpeg wrote:simply because u dislike my conclusions that does not make my assertions clueless; it just means u are unwilling to look at the evidence from which my conclusions were reached.

Keep the GCSE level philosophy jpeg. It's obvious to anyone who can read that you're not the sharpest tool, so your opinions carry no weight. Posting videos from the evolutionary dead end that is "ya boy Dee" also points to the fact that you have a predilection for known idiots. That numpty would buy a turd if it had an Akai badge on it, and I suspect you would too.

again u have failed to articulate anything that refutes the points made; which further suggests u should be quite when grown ups discuss things.

jpeg wrote:u should be quite when grown ups discuss things.

What does this even mean jpeg? You type in text speak which suggests you haven't grown up yourself, so maybe you should refrain from posting.

Your points refute themselves the minute you put them out there, because they're ill informed twaddle. You didn't even know about the Linnstrument, yet you come on here slagging off Roger Linn for not having a product that connects to a computer.

By your own rationale, the relevance of a product is based solely on how many units sell. So forget being into cool underground music because only Pop music is relevant? Don't go to an expensive restaurant, go to McDonald's or Pizza Hut? Don't buy boutique gear, just go with mass produced shit? You see jpeg... You're talking abject nonsense as usual.

I'm sure Roger Linn is doing perfectly fine as he is.

[quote="jpeg"
apparently they were in touch as the mpc studio and the ren sold heavy units;

also lotta peeps copped the mpc1k, the 2500 and the 4K and 5k.

so on what basis are u saying numark were never in touch? they had issues but peeps was buying their work with a lil help from jjos[/quote]

the ren and studio, who knows how much they sold actually.. and who cares.. when you A/B the mpc software with any other major daw out there is there anything really innovative about it? what features have they created that you can't get anywhere else?

the mpc4000 wasn't made by numark, and the 1000 and 2500 were total pieces of shit that would be useless if it weren't for a guy they ripped off making their mess something actually usable... the 5000 was an even bigger pile of shit with no way to save it.

My point is, they are usable to make music for sure.. but what people like roger linn do and what numark does are not the same thing. the linnstrument is not a production center, it is a design for a controller to make live instrument playing sound more articulate. I mean it isn't for me, I am not really an instrument player myself, but i see the idea... it's trying to give more control over more elements of a vst that traditional controllers couldn't do.

Whatever it's going to be, let them make an MPC so we can proudly show it off, on the artwork.

You guy's are still going at it? Too much spare time I guess lol

Mistamixx wrote:You guy's are still going at it? Too much spare time I guess lol

Spare time is just spare time. Who decides when it is too much?

Anyway, have you dicided what you're going to do?

I know I won't be doing the Touch! It should not be called MPC.

Coz wrote:

jpeg wrote:u should be quite when grown ups discuss things.

What does this even mean jpeg? You type in text speak which suggests you haven't grown up yourself, so maybe you should refrain from posting.

Your points refute themselves the minute you put them out there, because they're ill informed twaddle. You didn't even know about the Linnstrument, yet you come on here slagging off Roger Linn for not having a product that connects to a computer.

By your own rationale, the relevance of a product is based solely on how many units sell. So forget being into cool underground music because only Pop music is relevant? Don't go to an expensive restaurant, go to McDonald's or Pizza Hut? Don't buy boutique gear, just go with mass produced ****? You see jpeg... You're talking abject nonsense as usual.

I'm sure Roger Linn is doing perfectly fine as he is.

I was aware of the linninstrument but I saw early prototype images; I did not know the final form the product took; but having looked at it I concluded that it was still a novelty product.

Of course I respect linn's creations and inventiveness and what he has achieved with the legacy MPC's.

But that does not stop me from making an honest critique of what he is doing these days; again based on observation of recent products such linninstrument and tempest.

It is my opinion that the two aforementioned product are NOT widely in use because they did not meet the needs of a large contingent of users; if u follow the logic this means he is not in touch with their requirements.

as mentioned linn is a pioneer and innovator but never the less; the current crop of instruments just seem impractical for day to day use.

making childish remarks when someone has a differing opinion; that is based on logic and observation shows lack of maturity.

I feel that the criticism to Roger Linn here is uncalled for. For the record, he has never really produced products for consumer market.
For instance, Linndrum, MPC-60 and MPC-3000 were very expensive (and they are still!) products.
Especially the fisrt Linndrum LM-1 (the one that Prince used a lot) was sold around 5 grand in early 80s'.
He's moved on to something else. I don't call it "out of touch."
Particularly, I think that Linnstrument is revolutionary, the way computer mouse was. Very often, people don't see it.

Roger Linn left Akai because they stopped paying him royalties.

JVC wrote:I feel that the criticism to Roger Linn here is uncalled for. For the record, he has never really produced products for consumer market.
For instance, Linndrum, MPC-60 and MPC-3000 were very expensive (and they are still!) products.
Especially the fisrt Linndrum LM-1 (the one that Prince used a lot) was sold around 5 grand in early 80s'.
He's moved on to something else. I don't call it "out of touch."
Particularly, I think that Linnstrument is revolutionary, the way computer mouse was. Very often, people don't see it.

No one is criticizing Linn; just making an observations regarding the recent products with his name on it; and comparing with the current market trends.

Linn can do what he wants.

All music technology was expensive in the early 80's; this was not specific to Linn, so we cannot use the expense of his 80's products to suggest that he was always making niche/novelty products.

Also despite the great cost of Linn's early instruments; they were widely adopted in the music industry by a great deal of studios and producers.

The stuff he has made in recent years has not had that same adoption rate; so this is indicative or something, which many of u are un-willing to look at because u dont like the logical conclusions that u might reach.


No one disputes how revolutionary Linn was;

There is no issue with him moving onto other areas of endeavors he is entitled to do that; but he may no longer have any interest in sampling work stations and his current output does suggests this is the case.

So with this being said even if Linn was with Akai of today; with his current mindset there is nothing to say that he would be making anything resembling the mpc60 or the 3k, as he appears to moved on.