A little help for a producer whos songs are being heard...

Guys, I need your input on this, cos I'm at a bit of a loss...

last year I did some work with a vocalist. we agreed on a fifty fifty ownership of all work produced. No paper-work. after a while the relationship broke down. It was not amicable. Two songs that we were working on were coming together nicely. One in particular was finished off to a reasonable demo standard.

As a producer/songwriter, I am keen to keep unfinished things under wraps, esp. if they are still in demo form.

However, I've noticed that the vocalist is using one of our songs to promote herself on the internet. In fact, on music download.com it is her biggest download, by well over 1500 downloads!

She gives me credit as a collaborator, but in truth I arranged, programmed, recorded, and produced the demo. but I still feel that I do not want the song out there in it's present form because it is merely a demo, and it should be recorded and produced properly - I want this as my career and if people are hearing it they gotta hear what a good producer I am! I feel like she is reaping rewards from our work, but I aint, cos it aint ready.

What do you guys think, or can you give any advice on what I should/should not do...

That's the hardest part when is a song ready?
Yo when I was in the game half finshed songs were put on albums that still need some things done to them!
The Execs were sastified with the demo form of the tracks but not me even when product was selling I still was'nt happy with the end result!

Lesson 1

Get your stuff copyrighted and never make verbal agreements with nobody it's business and you have to keep that in mind at all times!

Lesson 2
1500 peeps have heard your stuff consider that free Pr for you and learn from that my friend!!
Peace

good points! I was wonderin whether to get mad on the vocalist. But i guess I can't really. Thing is, I would happily do a remix, or at least a decent mix, but when I gave her the rough stereo wavs to record her vox over, she did it at the wrong sample rate, so when I open her project file, everything is out of time, in the wrong key etc... too much work to sort out. And we don't speak now, so I can't ask her to re-do stuff.

Lessons learnt indeed!

You shouldn't have F'd her, naw jus playin. But what Ready said was on the point, you also have to remember and I have to tell myself this all the time,

You are listening to the music from a producers standpoint

Which is totally different from the average listener or a label exec, worst case scenario you bump into another producer and they say "Yo, that mix was awful" Simply look at them and say "I know", watch their response....

bboutit wrote:Simply look at them and say "I know", watch their response....

...and what's the usual response? Don't know any other people around producing music, just wondering. I totally agree about the producers stand point though. I'll make something, and friends and aquantences will be like, that's tight! But I end up hating the **** beat! Cuz it ain't right like I want it.

The response is usually like a cross between an inside joke and a "but what can you do?" look accompanied with a frustrated shoulder shrug....that's usually what I see.

That's been the hardest thing I've had to acknowledge is that the producers ear is waaaaaaaaay different from the general publics ear. I've had to "dumb down" alot of my beats becuase they were too "complex". It is a hard concept to grasp when you hear the world through your "ear" and the rest of the world doesn't.

F'n suxx....

DEEP n GOOD STUFF....................


Never Let Being COOL Stop Your Paper .....

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ONE

Knoxximus wrote:That's been the hardest thing I've had to acknowledge is that the producers ear is waaaaaaaaay different from the general publics ear. I've had to "dumb down" alot of my beats becuase they were too "complex". It is a hard concept to grasp when you hear the world through your "ear" and the rest of the world doesn't.

F'n suxx....

I here you on that. I can be making something, people might like it, but I'll be like, "you hear that buzz?", or whatever. Most of the time, they cannot. But to me, it sticks out like a sore thumb! I'll scratch a whole f*ckin' project if I don't like a piece of it, and people wonder why. Because what you hear, and what I hear are completely different.

Tell a girl friend of yours to kick her ass. If that doesn't work, tell her she's fat...it always works.

question for you dudes...about the "producers ear", and how us producers listen to the tracks differantly:

Are MCs ears hitting close to a producer? as in, can you consider thier opinion like a fellow producer? or are they also like the general public?

sometimes my MCs dont like some of my beats, where my "normal friends" think they are some of my best. I trust them all, but damn, sometimes i think my MCs are retarted. Its hard for me to be a true judge because im biased to all my tracks.

Is this just a MC thing, where they gotta feel it and they hearing things only an MC would think about, or what!

peace

i dont know about the MC's ear compared to a producers ear. but when im chillen with my boys and im doin a beat they will be like "yo thats tight" and i will be like "it needs somethin". and as yall said i have to dumb down. but what happens 50% of the time is, i will do a beat and be feelin it but come back the next day and play it and it aint good to me anymore. its like i just dont feel it. thats how i know if i made a good beat. if i can listen to it today, tommorrow, in a week, and it still sounds just as hot as when i first layed down the melody or bassline its a good beat. so most the time i will jsut delete it and move on if i aint likin it no mor. but now i spend way more time on a beat. just listenin over and over while i do things like homework and searchin the internet. if it gets played out then it gets deleted. thats why alot of producers say they make 2 or 3 even 5 beats a day. and if i can get 1 good concept every 3 days i am happy. cuz those other 6, 7, or 8 beats will just rot cuz i wont be feelin it when i come back to it. is it like that for yall??

yeah its like that for me too. Sometimes i wont make a beat for a week. But then when i do, its a lot nicer than if i try to force it.

Ive been thinking though, and really when my emcees do like a beat, they like it right away. Thats how i know its good. When you can like it right away. But this is not always true..as alot of my favorite songs, i didnt like right away...they grew on me.

And sometimes, my girl, or someone else...ill preview a track to them, they will be like "no, i dont like it" but then the next day, ill be working on the same track and they will walk by, and be like, "hey i like that one" and im like OMFG!

Dont trust emcees because they only like what someone else has, or what they are feeling. Im now on a relation ship, (actually after this post above) with my one emcee, where if he doesnt "like a track" he tells me if he doesnt like it because its not his style, or if its because its bad; but i think im going to still take everythingn with a grain of salt....because everyone has thier own motivations and visions for themselves, especiallyl emcees. Im sure snoop dog didnt see him self rapping the way he did with dr.dre.....or eminem for that matter.....or at least not 100 percent that way.

you gotta get them motivated in the right direction. The emcee im refering too, he is putting his album together...he has an idea of what he wants it to be, so he has his filter on. Hes looking for alot of dirty south hype tracks, because he thinks thats hot....whereas i like sample based..and i dont think he sounds good on that shit; i dont mind because now im better with those kind of tracks. I think we both are right, but

This is why i like to keep everything "business" so he just gets the tracks he likes, and thats that, no hard feelings. But then this is also why "hiphop is falling" everyone is out for themselves, so albums are bought, and arent neccesarily "cultivated" to be the tallest, most potent buds. ya know.

BUt ive been thinking about being a good producer, and i think that part of being a good one, is hearing someone elses potential over your track, then convincing them "showing them" your vision, and helping them get thier. Because other people cant read your mind, so if you know its hot, then go with it.

My two cents
First thing i do after or when i have most of the beat done is see if i can flow on it. If I dont like it or i can flow on it as and Mc why would any other mc.

Second thing is i let my little sister hear it or my girl. If the girls like it you know the rest.

third is i will play it over and over untill I get tired of it or it inspires me to add something or takes something out of it and make a new beat.

For me what i have notice if i have a hot beat i can most often take the drums or the melody and make a new beat with that.

Bottom line if your head isnt banging with the beat then its not banging.

Take all your audio from that chick's vocs and make a kit out of it. You have a bunch of royalty-free accapellas. Can you say "Oh Oh Boy"

I have decided tha tI will never be able to tell if something is hot or not. You just gotta do you. I do agree with Devious, if I can't flow over it, it's scrapped.

i just make whut i like ,feel and think is hot,if the mc dont digg it,then there' s no hard feelings ,but i still love that beat,if he likes it or not..im not a kind of producer who makes whut you want...i make my own shit,and if they feel it.they can bless it with some knowledge..that s the end of the story there...
and i will never dumb my beats down cause someone else thinks its to complex..if they think that,mabey my beat makes their brain work..and that not a bad thing..

one borgoe