Yet another workflow/DAW question

I'll try and keep this relatively simple, but essentially I am confused as to the best HW or SW to go with to achieve what I really need to do. I produce mostly hip-hop but diversify frequently to other genres.

Current high level workflow :

- Create beat on MPC, sample chop, multiple sequences, some track variations with duplicate program's etc
- Use song mode (urgh) to construct the sequences into a song
- Bounce the song to a new sequence
- Utilise track-mute where applicable to drop out beats, bass etc
- If need to add vocals, then export to WAV and import into something like Adobe Audition to lay the vocal audio and edit the wave (Still think this has the best Wave editing features, and it's a carry over from using 'Cool Edit Pro' years ago).
- If need to add synth lines that span sequences, I will export to WAV and import into Logic Pro X.
- I take eventual track into Ozone for some mastering and mixing tweaks before exporting finished song.

My biggest gripes with my workflow are :

- I really dislike the MPC 'song' mode for arranging tracks. It feels like an afterthought and is so fiddly that it ruins any feeling of creativity.
- Whilst I enjoy building up sequences on the MPC, I hate having to manually muck around to create variations or interesting elements. Again, it feels a bit 'forced', and takes some time.
- I struggle to use Logic Pro X at times. Sometimes I know EXACTLY what I want to do, but can spend the next couple of hours trying to figure out how to make Logic work how I want, and that usually involves intricate tweaking of various parameters, which I forget by the same I do it again. This is pretty much why I only really use it for layering synths onto a complete beat. I also hate the myriad of views on Logic.
- I'd love to find some software which handles vocal editing (mostly rap, so punch-ins etc) as well as Audition. - preferably the same software that can nail the other elements I mention.

I guess what I really want to do is build the basic beats on the MPC, then export them into something which allows me to *easily* tweak and come up with variations, effectively arrange a song then layer synths, vocals or whatnot on top then mix everything down.

Reason I ask is....is this something that Ableton would meet? Or would I find myself with a different set of frustrations? Would I need something like Push to get the best of out it? (cost becomes a factor here).

I have even questioned if Maschine would offer a better workflow for my needs, but without actually owning one for a while it's hard to tell. The arrangement stuff *looks* better than the MPC in the software, but I do like the MPC workflow on the whole.

I think the problem is that everyone says 'try different stuff to find the thing that works best for you', and yet unless you have limitless cash it's hard to really spend time with different DAWs or Hardware to work that out. So I acknowledge that sometimes the grass always looks greener and all that...

Any ideas welcome

I dont use song mode, I just adjust the sequence to have 100+ bars (if needed depends on the length of the song) and copy the midi notes inside the bars (in track mode) to what ever bar it is needed.

So for example If I need Bar 1 and 2 at Bar 55 and 56 I just go to track mode and copy them from bar 1 and 2 and drag them to bar 55 and 56.

But I still think Akai should implement a way to this a lot easier like the way you do it in a normal daw. You just make block that contains the midi notes in those bars and copy and paste voila.

I really expect 2.0 to have this feature.

I use Song Mode for getting a general structure and then export the song to a new sequence to then make any further changes so I can work Linearly from that point.
The videos from Dan said 2.0 song mode is being reworked so hopefully that will be improved.

Regarding Logic, I gave up with Logic thanks to the MPC and switched to Reaper as almost everything seemed easier to do in terms of routing MIDI to and from the MPC when using it as a plugin in the DAW eg using external synths/effects.

I generally export all my stems from the MPC now before moving to a 'proper DAW' for mixing though as I'm all in the box so no need for that kind of communication between MPC plugin and DAW as I'm in standalone mode now for creation and arrangement until I'm mixing where I then export stems(explode tracks for drums so can mix them individually) as WAV and start a new mixing session in the DAW. I could go back to Logic now but prefer Reaper now as it works alot more logically I find, pun intended!

@Mink, try the following:

- Create beat on MPC, sample chop, multiple sequences, some track variations with duplicate program's etc
- Play in SEQ mode to change and mute different Tracks etc...so that you can get an idea of what can be done with this SEQ
- Export this SEQ to WAV, exporting single tracks/sounds so that you can import to another DAW
- Import this one SEQ to FL Studio and loop everything. Over there you can easily add synths, vocals, add FXes etc... everything MPC should have!

Would this work for you?

Zbigniew Zielinski wrote:@Mink, try the following:

- Create beat on MPC, sample chop, multiple sequences, some track variations with duplicate program's etc
- Play in SEQ mode to change and mute different Tracks etc...so that you can get an idea of what can be done with this SEQ
- Export this SEQ to WAV, exporting single tracks/sounds so that you can import to another DAW
- Import this one SEQ to FL Studio and loop everything. Over there you can easily add synths, vocals, add FXes etc... everything MPC should have!

Would this work for you?

Thanks...all good up to the FL Studio bit....as I work on a Mac, and I don't believe it is available on that platform.

It's why I am eyeing Ableton as a possible solution, but without spending some quality time with that DAW, it's hard to say. And it's expensive

Mink wrote:Thanks...all good up to the FL Studio bit....as I work on a Mac, and I don't believe it is available on that platform.

It's why I am eyeing Ableton as a possible solution, but without spending some quality time with that DAW, it's hard to say. And it's expensive

Ableton Live has a 30 day demo with all the options available...

Thanks! Don't know why I didn't think of that!!!

Giving it a spin, and the 30 days will let me play with it over the xmas holidays.

I notice some DAWs, such as Pro-Tools, offer a kind of leasing pay-as-you-use type arrangement. It would be nice for others at the more expensive end of the market to also follow that approach as otherwise the cost to really get to know a DAW is quite prohibitive

Mink wrote:Thanks! Don't know why I didn't think of that!!!

Giving it a spin, and the 30 days will let me play with it over the xmas holidays.

I notice some DAWs, such as Pro-Tools, offer a kind of leasing pay-as-you-use type arrangement. It would be nice for others at the more expensive end of the market to also follow that approach as otherwise the cost to really get to know a DAW is quite prohibitive

You're welcome. Many DAW software developers do offer a demo in some form or another. Bitwig, Presonus, Propellorhead, just to name a few, all offer demos of their flagship softwares. Steinberg however, does not offer a demo or any other license options other than "**** you pay me". Neither does Apple, unless you want to count Garageband as a demo to Logic. I do agree that a subscription option for DAWs would be nice and a better fit for some people. Anyways, good luck on finding your platform of choice.

I use almost the exact same workflow as you and it works fine for me. Unfortunately the MPC software is so buggy and shitty that I get a lot of errors while bouncing multiple tracks with many vsts on them. I also do all my midi sequencing and vst synths in logic as well so it cuts out that extra step. I do all my mixing and mastering in logic. Try really learning logic. It is super powerful and great for mixing and mastering and I think if you get good at it you could do all your vocals in logic.