Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it down

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Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it down

By Fre$hBreath Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:10 am
I want to sample a LP at 45rpm then pitch it back down to the original speed of the record. But what is the exact pitch I should be looking for to accomplish this? Bare in mind that I will be using a bit reduction effect during the sampling of these records.

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By CharlesRandolph Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:30 pm
Fre$hBreath wrote:I want to sample a LP at 45rpm then pitch it back down to the original speed of the record. But what is the exact pitch I should be looking for to accomplish this? Bare in mind that I will be using a bit reduction effect during the sampling of these records.



Question: Why are you sampling a 33 1/3 LP at 45 RPM's? What is it that you hope to accomplish? In the past when we had limited sample time, this was a good technique for allowing to get more time. However now there isn't much of a benefit, because of how much sample time we have.

The only way to obtain the quality of a 45 record, is to use an actual 45. Pitching up a 33 1/3 to 45 and then down does not improve the quality of the recording. However, if you're sampling into an older sampler sp1200, mpc 60 or something similar, then I understand why.

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By dryad-66 Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:54 pm
CharlesRandolph wrote:
Fre$hBreath wrote:I want to sample a LP at 45rpm then pitch it back down to the original speed of the record. But what is the exact pitch I should be looking for to accomplish this? Bare in mind that I will be using a bit reduction effect during the sampling of these records.



Question: Why are you sampling a 33 1/3 LP at 45 RPM's? What is it that you hope to accomplish? In the past when we had limited sample time, this was a good technique for allowing to get more time. However now there isn't much of a benefit, because of how much sample time we have.

The only way to obtain the quality of a 45 record, is to use an actual 45. Pitching up a 33 1/3 to 45 and then down does not improve the quality of the recording. However, if you're sampling into an older sampler sp1200, mpc 60 or something similar, then I understand why.


It will certainly probably maybe hopefully could do add something to the sample.Weather good or bad it will be a bit more grungier.Worth a shot.
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Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By peterpiper Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:00 am
This way of sampling will add a 'lofi character' to the sample. BUT while old hardware sampler had a limited samplerate and A/D converter of 'lower quality' compared to modern samplers or audio interfaces it does sound pleasing (to many lofi fans) on these old machines but not on modern samplers or audio interfaces/soundcards.
Your sample won't benefit from this sampling method with an audio interface. Even on some 90s hardware samplers like the MPC2000 (or XL) or the s5000 or other samplers with 44.1 kHz sampling it wouldn't do a pleasing degration. The reason is that the sampling source need to be pushed to near/above the nyquist frequency.
The Nyquist frequency is half of the samplingrate which is 22.05 kHz on a 44.1 samplingrate.
The Nyquist frequency of the SP1200 for example is 13.02 kHz cause its samplerate is 26.04.
Now if you speed up a record, the frequecies of the music will get higher. Some of the high overtones of the instruments will become too high for the samplingrate to catch up and will result in errors in the high frequency range of the sample. These errors (artifacts) are even more present when you play back the sampled signal lower (at original pitch or lower) cause what you do is getting these errors to a frequency range your ear is able to hear better. You will hear the artifacts/sparkle/ringing whatever you call it.
Now with a samplerate of 44.1 kHz you'll have to pitch the signal even more to get above the Nyquist frequency and even if you do that most of the 44.1kHz converter have a higher quality and a filter before the A/D converter to avoid these errors/artifacts. LoFi was not intended in 80s/90s sampler. The manufactures always wanted to create an accurate clean A/D and D/A converter.
The fact that we have such a thing like LoFi sampling is just because the manufactures doesn't produce high quality converter back in the 80s. They probably COULD have but then the sampler had to be so expensive that noone had the money to buy it.
peace
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Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By Wal Martian Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:29 pm
peterpiper wrote:The Nyquist frequency of the SP1200 for example is 13.02 kHz cause its samplerate is 26.04.
Now if you speed up a record, the frequecies of the music will get higher. Some of the high overtones of the instruments will become too high for the samplingrate to catch up and will result in errors in the high frequency range of the sample. These errors (artifacts) are even more present when you play back the sampled signal lower (at original pitch or lower) cause what you do is getting these errors to a frequency range your ear is able to hear better. You will hear the artifacts/sparkle/ringing whatever you call it.

Try setting the sample rate on your PC to a lower number. I've sampled at 45RPM at 26040Hz in Goldwave and it does change the sound.

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By dryad-66 Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:38 pm
I tried it last night on the X.Result-nothing really happened.Not really suprized.But it pushed me to start sampling again from my vinyl.Using the filters on the X and 5000 on old vinyl is too cool.Filtering with these boxes is extreme.Great filters.Im pretty much concentrating on the 8 pole high filters and sweeping through them finding sweet spots.The grungier and more gnarly the sample the better it sounds.

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By CharlesRandolph Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:43 pm
I always laugh at how some glorify the whole Lo Fi sounds. Sample a record, add distortions, run it through some filters, tweak the envelope and resonance, Low Pass Filter the bass line, add compression to the drums, and BOOM. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you are on a Software DAW use these 4 Plug Ins:

Bit Cruncher
Low Pass Filter
High Pass Filter
Compressor
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Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By richie Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:16 pm
Your results may be less than impressive when attempting to employ this method on a DAW or a new clean sampler.

One of a few other reasons why some will say it "sounds better" has largely to do with the pitch interpolation that the sampler employs. For instance, if I sampled at a higher pitch and pitched down on my S900, the CPU on that machine did not have the processing power to pitch down a sample linearly like one would find later samplers such as the S series / XL series. Instead, it adjusted its clockrate to run the samplerate lower, sort of in the same line as playing a record or tape at different speeds.

I first found it as noticeable when sampling a drumbreak at a higher speed. I'd pitch down and much of the transients still sounded noticeably present and pronounced but doing the same on a DAW or a newer sampler made it sound (in my opinion) thinner and the transients didn't have nearly the same body to them and sounded kind of mushed at times. I was recently impressed with how well the EPS handles pitching down and still retaining a lot of the transients and character, it sounded better than the S900 to me.

I'm still learning though...

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By dryad-66 Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:43 pm
CharlesRandolph wrote:I always laugh at how some glorify the whole Lo Fi sounds.

If you are on a Software DAW use these 4 Plug Ins:

Bit Cruncher
Low Pass Filter
High Pass Filter
Compressor


Why laugh :shock: its just using what you prefer.Sound has become so clean,transparent and clinical in recent years (computers and consumer gear) that there/s not much there to consider.Take the X and live for instance.Good recording,yeah.But not much character.Its like its empty.Which i find ok but then you have to add that character.I do anyhow.Im not a fan of bit crushers tho.I prefer accidental lofi.Can also be translated somewhat to warmth.Ive always found that if your machine (s) have a bit of that built in :smoker: im more happy :-D Maybe not all the time tho.

Re: Sampling a 33/3 RPM record at 45 RPM and then pitch it d

By dryad-66 Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:48 pm
richie wrote:
I first found it as noticeable when sampling a drumbreak at a higher speed. I'd pitch down and much of the transients still sounded noticeably present and pronounced but doing the same on a DAW or a newer sampler made it sound (in my opinion) thinner and the transients didn't have nearly the same body to them and sounded kind of mushed at times. I was recently impressed with how well the EPS handles pitching down and still retaining a lot of the transients and character, it sounded better than the S900 to me.

I'm still learning though...


Yes ensoniqs are one of the best at that.
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