IS AN OUTSIDE DAW NECESSARY AT ALL?

Bezo wrote:Beat makers & producers don't NEED DAWs, mixing engineers do...

Just offering a different view of this opinion. I don’t disagree with it necessarily... But if you really consider what a producer does, much of it couldn’t be done in an MPC for example. But my perspective distinctly differentiates a producer from a beat-maker. I think the question “is an outside DAW necessary at all?”. If you’re a beat-maker, no, definitely not. If you’re a producer, yes, definitely so.

From a beat-maker perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and the song is considered finished (or you don’t have any other role in the process), then I agree, you don’t need a DAW.

From a producer perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and then the song is arranged, live musicians brought in to change a riff or record a new pass, vocal arrangement tweaked, vocals tuned if needed, bridge is moved to better create the emotional energy desired, the arrangement of the song intro is tweaked (shortened, lengthened, reworked) to better catch the listener’s attention, and adlibs added to create the desired effect, etc, etc, etc... you can’t do those things in an MPC - you need a DAW. These are the kinds of things that producers do on the regular.

Nothing wrong with being a beat-maker or a producer. Both are critical roles in music production. But just trying to add another perspective to the OP’s question. My answer, depends on what role you want to play in the music production process.

Eyalc wrote:

Bezo wrote:Beat makers & producers don't NEED DAWs, mixing engineers do...

Just offering a different view of this opinion. I don’t disagree with it necessarily... But if you really consider what a producer does, much of it couldn’t be done in an MPC for example. But my perspective distinctly differentiates a producer from a beat-maker. I think the question “is an outside DAW necessary at all?”. If you’re a beat-maker, no, definitely not. If you’re a producer, yes, definitely so.

From a beat-maker perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and the song is considered finished (or you don’t have any other role in the process), then I agree, you don’t need a DAW.

From a producer perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and then the song is arranged, live musicians brought in to change a riff or record a new pass, vocal arrangement tweaked, vocals tuned if needed, bridge is moved to better create the emotional energy desired, the arrangement of the song intro is tweaked (shortened, lengthened, reworked) to better catch the listener’s attention, and adlibs added to create the desired effect, etc, etc, etc... you can’t do those things in an MPC - you need a DAW. These are the kinds of things that producers do on the regular.

Nothing wrong with being a beat-maker or a producer. Both are critical roles in music production. But just trying to add another perspective to the OP’s question. My answer, depends on what role you want to play in the music production process.

For example, what if you want to be a beat maker and a producer at same time?
Then you create with Mpc and finalize with a multitrack.
That's my solution and I try to keep them separate. First I create with Mpc and Mpc only, then I record all into a multitrack and clean all.

@Frisbi...

Yep, I agree. That’s what many of us do (me included of course) these days. If the goal is to be a beat-maker you need a beat-making machine, but not necessarily a DAW. if the goal is to be a producer, you don’t necessarily need a beat-making machine, but you need a DAW. If the goal is to be both, you probably need both.

Again, back to the OP question... depends on what role you want to play in the music production process.

Eyalc wrote:

Bezo wrote:Beat makers & producers don't NEED DAWs, mixing engineers do...

Just offering a different view of this opinion. I don’t disagree with it necessarily... But if you really consider what a producer does, much of it couldn’t be done in an MPC for example. But my perspective distinctly differentiates a producer from a beat-maker. I think the question “is an outside DAW necessary at all?”. If you’re a beat-maker, no, definitely not. If you’re a producer, yes, definitely so.

From a beat-maker perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and the song is considered finished (or you don’t have any other role in the process), then I agree, you don’t need a DAW.

From a producer perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and then the song is arranged, live musicians brought in to change a riff or record a new pass, vocal arrangement tweaked, vocals tuned if needed, bridge is moved to better create the emotional energy desired, the arrangement of the song intro is tweaked (shortened, lengthened, reworked) to better catch the listener’s attention, and adlibs added to create the desired effect, etc, etc, etc... you can’t do those things in an MPC - you need a DAW. These are the kinds of things that producers do on the regular.

Nothing wrong with being a beat-maker or a producer. Both are critical roles in music production. But just trying to add another perspective to the OP’s question. My answer, depends on what role you want to play in the music production process.

Agreed, though your example is crossing some lines IMO. And those lines can be thin. Some of that could be done by a recording engineer, writer, arranger, etc. If the producer is doing those things, he's wearing another hat at that moment. Depending on the project, those recordings & arrangements can be done in the MPC software. I'd also put tuning vocals on the mix engineer's list, but no, that's not something I would do in the MPC software.

I'll give my opinion another way. Ultimately, the producer is responsible for how the record sounds. Where the producer's role ends and the mixing engineer's begins will differ, but I believe the producer is responsible for the sound that gets recorded. The mixing engineer is responsible for enhancing that recording. Depends of course, but a producer could do his job on an MPC and in its software. A mix engineer would be working around a lot of missing tools trying to mix with the same resources.

I doubt we disagree. Just depends on the project.

@ Bezo

Yes i agree, a good engineer can make a good mixing on everything using what he has on hands. Countless masterpieces were make with a 4 track tape recorders in the 60s or 8 track in the 70s.
But if I want to make a premastering or a mastering then I need a multiband and a good maximizer, and Mpc doesn't have them.
But yes, if you intend to give your tracks to a studio for a professional mastering, then you can just make all with Mpc standalone and maybe give the studio 3 subs you make using the 3 (or 4 with X) outputs as subs.

Bezo wrote:I doubt we disagree. Just depends on the project.

I agree.

Frisbi wrote:@ Bezo

...But yes, if you intend to give your tracks to a studio for a professional mastering, then you can just make all with Mpc standalone and maybe give the studio 3 subs you make using the 3 (or 4 with X) outputs as subs.

If I were giving something to a mastering house, I'd be doing a full blown mix in my DAW. If I were giving something only to be mixed, I'd provide all tracks separate and untouched less what I use for sound designing. Neither am I comfortable doing in the MPC software because of the missing features that I mentioned.

If you want to work with bands, big bands, or any music where musician sing and play together. Software DAW with the appropriate amount of inputs, is the tool to use or any multi-tracking recorder. I know people always bring up the Beatles, and their 4 track. Which was cutting edge during that time. But if they were recording now, they would be using the best gear they could find.

We can't write an entire book by hand, using a pencil/pen and paper. But why use that, when we can type using a keyboard, computer and printer.

Bezo wrote:If I were giving something to a mastering house, I'd be doing a full blown mix in my DAW. If I were giving something only to be mixed, I'd provide all tracks separate and untouched less what I use for sound designing. Neither am I comfortable doing in the MPC software because of the missing features that I mentioned.

I've recorded and mixed entire songs directly in the MPC and two tracked it out and sent off to mastering. It's definitely a more surgical process. Not very organic but it can be done with high level results. This was done before drums machines had 8 track recordings.

Are you able too complete songs and record vocals, and finish a master mix? if you have a workflow by all means do you. All a daw allows for me is the ability to mix songs completely with vocal tracks they way that I want too. If you're just making beats as a semi beginner investing in a daw might not need to be your main focus or a reason to incorporate a DAW just yet.[/quote]

I haven't gotten to the point where I'm recording and mixing vocals, right now I'm just making beats and mixing them in the MPC. I plan to grow my set up with a DAW, audio interface, and a cardioid mic to make my home a one stop shop to just do everything from beginning to end. At that point, I know i'll need a DAW for sure.

Joswun wrote:I haven't gotten to the point where I'm recording and mixing vocals, right now I'm just making beats and mixing them in the MPC. I plan to grow my set up with a DAW, audio interface, and a cardioid mic to make my home a one stop shop to just do everything from beginning to end. At that point, I know i'll need a DAW for sure.

Sounds like a good plan, only suggestion I would make is get the best audio monitor you can afford. Lock yourself away from the world, master your craft, then come out with all gun blazing.

Eyalc wrote:

Bezo wrote:Beat makers & producers don't NEED DAWs, mixing engineers do...

Just offering a different view of this opinion. I don’t disagree with it necessarily... But if you really consider what a producer does, much of it couldn’t be done in an MPC for example. But my perspective distinctly differentiates a producer from a beat-maker. I think the question “is an outside DAW necessary at all?”. If you’re a beat-maker, no, definitely not. If you’re a producer, yes, definitely so.

From a beat-maker perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and the song is considered finished (or you don’t have any other role in the process), then I agree, you don’t need a DAW.

From a producer perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and then the song is arranged, live musicians brought in to change a riff or record a new pass, vocal arrangement tweaked, vocals tuned if needed, bridge is moved to better create the emotional energy desired, the arrangement of the song intro is tweaked (shortened, lengthened, reworked) to better catch the listener’s attention, and adlibs added to create the desired effect, etc, etc, etc... you can’t do those things in an MPC - you need a DAW. These are the kinds of things that producers do on the regular.

Nothing wrong with being a beat-maker or a producer. Both are critical roles in music production. But just trying to add another perspective to the OP’s question. My answer, depends on what role you want to play in the music production process.

And that's a great perspective, thank you for that. I will be growing into all of these roles as my knowledge and comfort level increases. I don't just make beats, I'm an artist as well so my goals are to produce for others while also creating for myself. So taking in the information you provided puts everything I will need in perfect persective... Much respect.

Just offering a different view of this opinion. I don’t disagree with it necessarily... But if you really consider what a producer does, much of it couldn’t be done in an MPC for example. But my perspective distinctly differentiates a producer from a beat-maker. I think the question “is an outside DAW necessary at all?”. If you’re a beat-maker, no, definitely not. If you’re a producer, yes, definitely so.

From a beat-maker perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and the song is considered finished (or you don’t have any other role in the process), then I agree, you don’t need a DAW.

From a producer perspective, if the track is passed to a vocalist, the vocals recorded, and then the song is arranged, live musicians brought in to change a riff or record a new pass, vocal arrangement tweaked, vocals tuned if needed, bridge is moved to better create the emotional energy desired, the arrangement of the song intro is tweaked (shortened, lengthened, reworked) to better catch the listener’s attention, and adlibs added to create the desired effect, etc, etc, etc... you can’t do those things in an MPC - you need a DAW. These are the kinds of things that producers do on the regular.

Nothing wrong with being a beat-maker or a producer. Both are critical roles in music production. But just trying to add another perspective to the OP’s question. My answer, depends on what role you want to play in the music production process.

For example, what if you want to be a beat maker and a producer at same time?
Then you create with Mpc and finalize with a multitrack.
That's my solution and I try to keep them separate. First I create with Mpc and Mpc only, then I record all into a multitrack and clean all.[/quote]

You've all helped me gain a better perspective on what I'm looking for as I move forward, I definitely appreciate it.

CharlesRandolph wrote:

Joswun wrote:I haven't gotten to the point where I'm recording and mixing vocals, right now I'm just making beats and mixing them in the MPC. I plan to grow my set up with a DAW, audio interface, and a cardioid mic to make my home a one stop shop to just do everything from beginning to end. At that point, I know i'll need a DAW for sure.

Sounds like a good plan, only suggestion I would make is get the best audio monitor you can afford. Lock yourself away from the world, master your craft, then come out with all gun blazing.

That's definitely the plan! Thank you!

Joswun wrote:That's definitely the plan! Thank you!

Besides that get your business in order and register for ASCAP or BMI.

https://www.ascap.com/
https://www.bmi.com/
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-register.html

CharlesRandolph wrote:

Bezo wrote:If I were giving something to a mastering house, I'd be doing a full blown mix in my DAW. If I were giving something only to be mixed, I'd provide all tracks separate and untouched less what I use for sound designing. Neither am I comfortable doing in the MPC software because of the missing features that I mentioned.

I've recorded and mixed entire songs directly in the MPC and two tracked it out and sent off to mastering. It's definitely a more surgical process. Not very organic but it can be done with high level results. This was done before drums machines had 8 track recordings.

I have no doubt folks can mix the hell out of a song in an MPC or in its software. With the tools I lean on, I can't. I use VCA tracks, I need multi-output plugin support, delay compensation, actual stereo panning.