MPC Live price drop: now $999 USD - new hardware incoming?

Naw, I’m sure danoc is more than straight. The point I’m trying to make has really nothing to do wit( him. I’m just pointing out what I am seeing,
So the selling points are they Keybed and integrated system? I get the computer integration , but if if it’s sum of parts is the Fantom or integra sound set plus added newer modeled units, sp404 with maybe enhanced GUI of the new 707, a new analog filter and upgraded effects on a baller keybed? Oh the tr sequencer... what I’m saying is this is an closed roland system and I wouldn’t choose them for a few of the aspects.. after reading the review of the last few fantoms, it’s honestly leaves me at wtf...there’s purposes and scenarios where this is a good match but for the price, I’m very skeptical.

Cockdiesel wrote:Naw, I’m sure danoc is more than straight. The point I’m trying to make has really nothing to do wit( him. I’m just pointing out what I am seeing,
So the selling points are they Keybed and integrated system? I get the computer integration , but if if it’s sum of parts is the Fantom or integra sound set plus added newer modeled units, sp404 with maybe enhanced GUI of the new 707, a new analog filter and upgraded effects on a baller keybed? Oh the tr sequencer... what I’m saying is this is an closed roland system and I wouldn’t choose them for a few of the aspects.. after reading the review of the last few fantoms, it’s honestly leaves me at wtf...there’s purposes and scenarios where this is a good match but for the price, I’m very skeptical.

The Fantom 8 is taking the place of the Roland V-Piano Digital Stage Piano which is no longer available. It going for 3 to 5K on the used market. So for those who were in the market for it, the fantom 8 gives them that, plus more for $1000 less.

The one thing about a closed system is stability. Also the integrations with software is a smart move because people are not replacing their desktop as often anymore. Personally, I only buy MIDI controllers because I have enough sounds for the rest of my life.

See I am unaware of the v-piano side. Really I’m a just a synth/sampling nerd. I agree with your angle, but it’s honestly hard to take this serious. I don’t have first hand experience but there complaints of the Fantom series that is bad. Like the sample is only a sample player you can’t sequence or export it, this is go8ng back but why isn’t this a mv with the other sound engines and keybed? Surely it had better sampling specs than this? There no point in it if s computer and controller can cover all if not most of the territory of this. Would you pay a grand for the keybed? How about the sound set? Or for a midi controller? Real price on this for me is more than 1000 from where it is now. The effects are worth maybe 500 bundled , but the filter will not be close at all. 10 dollar eventide iPad plugin will be stronger than a few of the effects.

Cockdiesel wrote:See I am unaware of the v-piano side. Really I’m a just a synth/sampling nerd. I agree with your angle, but it’s honestly hard to take this serious. I don’t have first hand experience but there complaints of the Fantom series that is bad.

Like the sample is only a sample player you can’t sequence or export it, this is go8ng back but why isn’t this a mv with the other sound engines and keybed? Surely it had better sampling specs than this? There no point in it if s computer and controller can cover all if not most of the territory of this.

Load time for the Fantom is pretty instant. A good piano VSTi, takes sometime to load. The idea is to sit down, turn it on, and start playing. Making music via sampling is a much slower creation tool, so not everyone is wants to do it. A new MV would be interesting to see, not sure how well it would go over.

Cockdiesel wrote:Would you pay a grand for the keybed? How about the sound set? Or for a midi controller? Real price on this for me is more than 1000 from where it is now. The effects are worth maybe 500 bundled , but the filter will not be close at all. 10 dollar eventide iPad plugin will be stronger than a few of the effects.

Kawai VPC1 all the way!

I get where you're ciming from CD. Filter wuse on the Fantom....Aiiiiiihhhh... The filter probably ain't the best, hell Nexus 2 filter probably better lol l love that filter. Plus l have Filter Freak from Sound Toys and that's with no doubt a beast.

I don't see this as a sound design piece. I have my sound design stuff. I want this for the power and the things l already mentioned. I just want one more out board piece and lm done. The Fantom is it. The money l spend on this l will make it back. Im not worried about that. If it was wack l wouldn't buy it.

Cockdiesel wrote:The prophet x is on a whole different level than this thing. Think like a maybach compared to a Lexus. Same could be said for the moog one, It’s not a workstation, it’s for professional sound designers. Like something you would find in a high end post production movie studio. It has the same aspect fo live professional playing but is sooo much different that this roland. It’s closest to the quantum, but the quantum has better sampling specs and really isn’t that similar.

If you look at the modx and the Kronos they seem to be more true “work stations” with quality sampling and audio recording specs. Where this thing sets apart seems to be in the computer integration, however I really hope roland doesn’t half ass it. They really half assed the computer integration on other new units, for this it would be beyond unacceptable.

I haven’t dug as deep as you on the roland but it would seem that it does more than any of the above mentioned, perhaps not as close with the Yamaha and korg, but even them just being older gives the edge to roland. Things are quickly obsolete these days. I will say thins if it’s using the 32 bit effects processors on the new boss line( md-500, rev-500) they will be dope effects, I’m sure the keybed will be professional, as the build quality. It will have the same, or improved sound module sounds they’ve been using, which are solid, plus I imagine some other goodies. I hope they don’t skimp on the analog filter, I don’t have as much faith compared to the pro x or moog, but different beasts and I’m not a fan of roland filters. Although I never used one of their modern analog filters. I wonder what the specs are for it and if it’s midi controllable.

Price is the only thing besides the sampling, but if you got money to blow go for it the x is still half of the cost of this thing. I’m sure it would be a wonderful addition to your setup, as with anyone else. I just can’t seem to justify it because I know it’s not for me. Trust me, I get gas prolly more than anyone and Can always find ways to justify my purchases even if I know I’ll regret it.

Me too CharlesRandolph . l have so many sounds their spilling outta the computer lol

I just finished sound designing a couple of sounds in Loom 2 and OMG! It was $14 at plugin boutique.

The new Fantom 8 has far, far more in common with the FA-08 that preceded it than the V-Piano Digital Stage Piano. That said, as far as new Akai gear replacing the Live, I'm in the dark. Price drop is likely to push inventory for the upcoming holidays and position the Force to be more attractive.

Danoc wrote:Me too CharlesRandolph . l have so many sounds their spilling outta the computer lol
I just finished sound designing a couple of sounds in Loom 2 and OMG! It was $14 at plugin boutique.

Sounds are the key. I have lots of real sampled instruments sample sets. They are pretty large in size, but they sound wonderful and one of the best ways to not date your sound.

the Fantom 6,7 and 8 use the same ZEN-Core - V-Piano Technology . Too bad the 6 an 7 are not using the : PHA-50 Keybed which is Roland's current top Keybed. That PHA-50 is also inside the Roland GP609. The GP609 goes for 10K and up depending on how you customize it. That's big discount if you get the 8.

I'm a real one, I take credit when I'm right, but openly admit when I'm wrong or need to re-proach something.

I don't like or completely agree with the Elektron example, but there is enough merit to it for me to renegotiate my feelings on the price. I personally look at the price, by comparing it functionally to what I am used to, for $3-4k, I care less about fancy tech, and more about unqiue, high quality sound design, even still I poo-pooed the Moog One's price, as I'm a strong proponenet that I can accomplish the same sounds of the same quality, using cheaper hardware or plugins. to me, the Fantom doesn't bring enough to the table to meet that, however...

While the elektron example is slightly busted, I own (2) of their devices, a "realisitc" Elektron layout would use (3) of their devices, and if you got, the FM keys to have a keybed, you would be spending $3k+, have a WORSE device, with a WORSE keybed, and FEWER options (and still need a mixer to work without a PC), and while the FM Keys is way overpriced (debatably all of their stuff is), the cost of the three, even if brought down a little, still fail in comparison to the Fantom.

I can do the same exercise with my AIRA Roland gear *current and future*, take my System-8 (1400), take my Tr-8s (800), add in the MC707 (1000), and that is SQUARE in Fantom territory, with again, less features (and needing a mixer, like the MX-1, another $600 on top).

So I'll concede that from a hardware stand point, it actually is or could be fairly priced, where I can't concede that is when a computer and DAW are involved.


Side Note - yeah we did have a "Value of the Live/X" debate not too long ago that got muddy, but I stick to my horses on that, the Live was about fairly priced, and the X is overpriced. The X can be justified if you slam the cost of a mixer in and make it a centralized hub in your studio, but if you already have a mixer, nah.
- Unreall

I'm not sure what is busted about what I said? It pretty much works for most, moderately price music systems. It's easier for some people to rationalize, buying 3 separate units for $850, than to buy 1 unit for $2450. That's why people own so many little pieces of gear, that all do the same thing.

Cables companies do it, but it's called bundles.
Internet only = $60
Internet/Phone/Cable = $40 dollars each.


Breakdown the Fantom 6 into separate devices. Then find Roland pieces that match the quality and functionaltiy. What is the price of separate Roland devices vs Fantom 6?

Unreallystic wrote:I'm a real one, I take credit when I'm right, but openly admit when I'm wrong or need to re-proach something.

I don't like or completely agree with the Elektron example, but there is enough merit to it for me to renegotiate my feelings on the price. I personally look at the price, by comparing it functionally to what I am used to, for $3-4k, I care less about fancy tech, and more about unqiue, high quality sound design, even still I poo-pooed the Moog One's price, as I'm a strong proponenet that I can accomplish the same sounds of the same quality, using cheaper hardware or plugins. to me, the Fantom doesn't bring enough to the table to meet that, however...

While the elektron example is slightly busted, I own (2) of their devices, a "realisitc" Elektron layout would use (3) of their devices, and if you got, the FM keys to have a keybed, you would be spending $3k+, have a WORSE device, with a WORSE keybed, and FEWER options (and still need a mixer to work without a PC), and while the FM Keys is way overpriced (debatably all of their stuff is), the cost of the three, even if brought down a little, still fail in comparison to the Fantom.

I can do the same exercise with my AIRA Roland gear *current and future*, take my System-8 (1400), take my Tr-8s (800), add in the MC707 (1000), and that is SQUARE in Fantom territory, with again, less features (and needing a mixer, like the MX-1, another $600 on top).

So I'll concede that from a hardware stand point, it actually is or could be fairly priced, where I can't concede that is when a computer and DAW are involved.


Side Note - yeah we did have a "Value of the Live/X" debate not too long ago that got muddy, but I stick to my horses on that, the Live was about fairly priced, and the X is overpriced. The X can be justified if you slam the cost of a mixer in and make it a centralized hub in your studio, but if you already have a mixer, nah.
- Unreall

Unreallystic wrote:I can do the same exercise with my AIRA Roland gear *current and future*, take my System-8 (1400), take my Tr-8s (800), add in the MC707 (1000), and that is SQUARE in Fantom territory, with again, less features (and needing a mixer, like the MX-1, another $600 on top).

So I'll concede that from a hardware stand point, it actually is or could be fairly priced, where I can't concede that is when a computer and DAW are involved.

Assorted musings: I've also got some Aria gear (System 8, System 1, TR-8, TB-3, and an MX-1 tying it all together). One could argue that this collection of gear is far more inspiring than a Fantom, and in a live performance setting - far more powerful. The Aria gear is literally made for live performance - the MX-1 included.

I don't need 88 keys. It will be in the stu. I already have 76 keyboard Roland A-30 midi keyboard. It has octive up and down so l will be good. Im more so going for the technology and functionitand sounds it has. The A-30 has semi weighted keys . the keys are full cut lookung like a hammer action piano.

CharlesRandolph wrote:
Sounds are the key. I have lots of real sampled instruments sample sets. They are pretty large in size, but they sound wonderful and one of the best ways to not date your sound.

the Fantom 6,7 and 8 use the same ZEN-Core - V-Piano Technology . Too bad the 6 an 7 are not using the : PHA-50 Keybed which is Roland's current top Keybed. That PHA-50 is also inside the Roland GP609. The GP609 goes for 10K and up depending on how you customize it. That's big discount if you get the 8.

Danoc wrote:I don't need 88 keys. It will be in the stu. I already have 76 keyboard Roland A-30 midi keyboard. It has octive up and down so l will be good. Im more so going for the technology and functionitand sounds it has. The A-30 has semi weighted keys . the keys are full cut lookung like a hammer action piano.

As for the 88 key, I understand when you said it before. I had to re-post that last part for the OP, who likes to talk out the side of their neck. This fool must get tired of eating CROW!

Unreallystic wrote:
So I'll concede that from a hardware stand point, it actually is or could be fairly priced, where I can't concede that is when a computer and DAW are involved.

I agree 100%. This is my reason why I won't purchase the Fantom 8. My MIDI Keyboard and sounds are more than enough. However, if didn't have my current Midi Keyboard, I would get the Fantom 8, for the keybed alone, with the sound and computer integrations as a bonus.

Icepulse wrote:An artist can make a more interesting piece of music with a rusty colander and a cigar-box guitar than some folks can make with a room full of pro gear. Beck’s “Stereopathetic Soulmanure” sounds like it was recorded with an old handheld cassette recorder (which it likely was), but it’s far better than anything he’s done in the last 20 years. Ween’s “Pure Guava” is another example. It’s a masterpiece. The whole thing was done w/ a Tascam 4-Track and a Casiotone. Came out the same year as Prince’s “Love Symbol” album, which is completely forgettable, million-dollar studio shit. Paul Klee took a lot of heat from critics for painting on cardboard and other detritus, but his jewel-like compositions were groundbreaking and his eye was sublime.

It’s not the tools. It’s the creative spirit that turns out truly timeless art.

I just needed to mention about how awesome an album both “Stereopathetic Soulmanure” and “Pure Guava” are. Those are great examples of musical brilliance with minimal tools.

Oh my bad

My singer a l just got out the stu. I laid down some heat. January is the deadline l put out my project. Catch that first quarter.

CharlesRandolph wrote:
As for the 88 key, I understand when you said it before. I had to re-post that last part for the OP, who likes to talk out the side of their neck. This fool must get tired of eating CROW!

Unreallystic wrote:
So I'll concede that from a hardware stand point, it actually is or could be fairly priced, where I can't concede that is when a computer and DAW are involved.

I agree 100%. This is my reason why I won't purchase the Fantom 8. My MIDI Keyboard and sounds are more than enough. However, if didn't have my current Midi Keyboard, I would get the Fantom 8, for the keybed alone, with the sound and computer integrations as a bonus.