Could we talk about the new MPC one?

Eyalc wrote:

Cockdiesel wrote:They have a lot of work to do on the clips side of the Mpc.

It appears that clips are constantly in their marketing of the MPC, so I imagine you're right.
But I know I'm not in the majority, but all this clip launching on the MPC just bugs me.

It was mentioned by dan on gearsluts that everything will be 1 to 1 with the mpc and force when mpc hits 3.0

Well... I can see why it bugs in some respect. There’s nothing to really respect about a “producer” that goes into splice and just launches them, adds effects and calls them beats. They are really just djing other people’s sound designs.

On the other hand, although I’m assuming you’re more of a traditional musician, playing keys, writing music, I can’t say that clips aren’t a good tool. I started with the roland sp line, and understand the options clips give you. The force is really a roland sp on steroids, plus aspects of the mpc, dynamic controller, and audio tracks. Essentially making it a standalone ableton light device.

I understand the workflow on the force, and admiringly haven’t really used it much because I’ve been spending my time working on my keyboard playing and learning synths. I don’t think there any reason to look down at someone who makes use of arranging clips or loops he makes on the force itself or even from other sources.

That nick guy really inspired me to maybe not sell the force, I’ve been trying for months now, and really use it to its potential. Really rethinking my setup, and honestly working with the live and maybe one other box/iPad into a mixer into the force might be the best workflow for me.

Eyalc wrote:Aaaaah - thank you!

Edit - okay, I'm confused though - he didn't actually say it was coming to the X / Live. Unless I didn't play the video long enough (I did skip to 11:44 though).

Right, hence my question earlier:

EnochLight wrote:Back on topic: does anyone know if the "Arranger" mode will likely come to the Live/X/One, or will that be reserved for the Force only?

Cockdiesel wrote:There’s nothing to really respect about a “producer” that goes into splice and just launches them, adds effects and calls them beats. They are really just djing other people’s sound designs..

To be fair, "djing other people's sound designs" is how turntablists were looked at in the early 80's, and how whole genres of music based on sampling was viewed back in the day. There's certainly an artistry behind using sample content from Splice (or anywhere else) if done in an interesting way.

Naw, the same concept of dropping loops into ableton and alternating them is hardly anything in terms of production. It is djing however in my opinion. I have a great respect for the diverse djing world too. From turntableism, which is more production and actually skills, to even some kid beat matching of his cdjs.

To me it’s different. There’s little to no skill involved loading a bunch of 4 bar loops you bought and alternating the loops. Some of those sound packs are the whole song broken down. Would you respect someone who loaded someone else’s song and did very little to make it his own?

Didn’t mean to imply that I don’t think clip usage is good or bad. If that’s what people want to do, have at it. Get inspiration from wherever it comes from. Though I do agree that it’s difficult (and inaccurate) to claim “producer” when you just launch and alternate muting 4 bar loops.

I just laugh because for a while every time you saw an Akai demo it was Andy launching clips. That was my only annoyance. Well, that, and the amount of time they seemed to have spent adding clip-related functionality to the platform. To me it was adding a microwave when the stove needed obvious repair and improvements. It was focused on muting and alternating 4 bar loops, when I felt the platform was supposed to be geared toward *producing* music. But they weren’t (and to some degree still aren’t) focused on the *producing* capabilities.

All just my opinion of course.

Strangely enough, clip launching pre-made samples has literally been the basis of one of the most popular DAW in the world (Abelton Live) since its inception. It was literally made to trigger clips of samples. This isn't new - clip launching has been around like this for 17 years in (Abelton) Live. Just seems like Akai is making sure people familiar with this brand of music making can easily do it on their hardware as well.

It's very much so Clip DJing. The skill is in music selection and reading the crowd. The skill no longer resides, in beat matching by ear,timing, back spinning, needle dropping, phrase cutting or other things like that. Take 50 different loops, throw it into a project, the program automatically tempo and pitch correct matches everything. Then turn a knob, mute a track, turn another knob, unmute a track.

That is the world we are in, if you're a musician it's super easy. For those of us, who know what we are doing, it gives us more options to expand our skills. The key is to not let the technology rule you, make it work you. If something doesn't work, find a work around.

The MPC was never made for Hiphop, but we took it and manipulated it, and made it work for us. The same way we did the turntable. I say take the CLIP MODE and find away to manipulate it, to enhance our productions. There will always be those who claim to be a producer, musician, mixer, and mastering engineer.

In my book a producer, is the person who knows how to make money, find money, and turn the project in saleable product. They don't have to touch a button, play a note, write a lyric, or perform at all. Now if they understand music and have a great ear. Then it makes them a better producer. But overall, they GET MONEY!

P.S. NAMM was packed, MPC ONE is nice. I pre-ordered!

Well clip launching goes back even before ableton in the Roland sp and doctor sample series. Like I mentioned how I started making sample based music. There is a big difference to launching premade clips and designing your own loops like the work flow in ableton and force is based off of. Not too nit pick but I am trying to delineate between the two sides of that work flow.

Djing clips is a whole different thing, then making your own loops with a synth or by sampling from vinyl.

Enoch are you trying to say that the guy paying for broken down tracks and muting loops is the same as my buddy making loops with drum breaks and me playing bass over them?

To me and most people would recognize it’s a different art form all together.

And no of all the djing I see now days clip launchers are only a step up from someone on some cdjs.

When clip launching djing came got popular, those cats would look at me and my 4000 playing live as a joke. I would also smoke those guys on cdjs.... djing wise the turntablist is king followed by guys who can rock vinyl sets.

There’s no “production” launching someone else’s clips and maybe applying effects. None.
Now the second those loops are chopped up, mangled etc. that’s a different matter.

Vinyl, CDJ, Clip, iPad, Controllers! A Tablist can freak them all. Man, we use to go back and forth using two Cassettes players and a mixer in the middle.

Eyalc wrote:Hahaha - maaaaaaan. The ENTIRE album. Going to title it "Clips from Splice".

LOL - everyone that uses clips and splice, I'm just playing. Just having a little fun.

Cockdiesel wrote:Enoch are you trying to say that the guy paying for broken down tracks and muting loops is the same as my buddy making loops with drum breaks and me playing bass over them?

I'm saying that musicians that choose to take stems from clips, and/or full clips, and re-arrange them into their own performance can be just as much of an art form as any other out there. Whether you prefer that form of art or not is immaterial - it exists, and people make good music from them. Places like Splice wouldn't exist if artists weren't getting good use out of it.

I'm not sure if all of you all are aware, but many musicians look at us MPC users and think we're all frauds as far as musicians go. If you call yourself a "producer" and use drum machines and synths, you're just not a "real musician", as far as they're concerned.

I know that none of us here feel that way, but it's just a point of view that should make you think "gee, maybe those kids pulling samples off of Splice and making their own shit out of it really is an art form"...

#food4thought

My experience.
There are 3 types of producers.

1. The first type of music producer is one who can play instrument/ s, has a vision and go. That person is involved in every aspect from beginning to end. Knows how arrange a song, deals with vocals etc. Sell the track for a profit.

2. 2nd type is one that who doesn't play any music but hss a great vision. Puts a team together to bring out a grear song. Sell tracks to artist and get paid.

3. Third type of producer is one who makes the music, sells the track to an an artist never gets involved with the project.

Danoc wrote:My experience.
1. The first type of music producer is one who can play instrument/ s, has a vision and go. That person is involved in every aspect from beginning to end. Knows how arrange a song, deals with vocals etc. Sell the track for a profit.

Avoid the others and keep this one.

We can drop it because this is about Mpc one but there’s a spectrum that I am referring too.

It’s cool if you get what I am saying or not. I guess to me it’s the work you out on even playing other people’s loops... I can respect djs and producers but not so much someone who barely meets the criteria for either.

Yea Danoc made me think about the 90’s or early 2000”s where “producers” had really nothing to do with the music but still got paid...

Cockdiesel wrote:We can drop it because this is about Mpc one but there’s a spectrum that I am referring too.

It’s cool if you get what I am saying or not. I guess to me it’s the work you out on even playing other people’s loops... I can respect djs and producers but not so much someone who barely meets the criteria for either.

Yea Danoc made me think about the 90’s or early 2000”s where “producers” had really nothing to do with the music but still got paid...

One of the main reason to work with a good producer, is because they have connections and can walk your music through the doors, that are normally closed.

I understand your feelings, because it's about skill and mastery over one's instrument. The key is to work with people who have a high level skill set, direct, not overly sensitive, passionate, dependable, trust worthy, knowledgeable and most importantly not lazy. Personally, I don't pay to much attention to that other stuff. I put on my blinder and keep moving.

Now as far as the MPC One, it's the right price point and perfect time.

Sure seems like the one will have a quicker workflow than the live. I’m pretty fast on it but having buttons really helps. My biggest gripe with the force is the omission of an erase button like on the Mpc. Back on the day the one button where you could manually set the start and end points of of loop on the Roland sp with pressing the button like you would tap tempo was crazy creative for me.

I wonder if the one will have a certain button/ workflow combo that far exceeds the live. I know I returned a sp 606 because it lacked the button I’m talking about. Although it was a lot better than the 303, and 404 I had before it. Now the sp 555 killed it. They should’ve kept with that line in a genuine sense. They’d be way beyond where the mc707 is today. Although it looks promising to me.