[b]Harder Drum Sounds[/b]

thank you.



gotamn....

elmacaco wrote:Nah holmes. The thing about a compressor adding punch is you can have the attack transient peek through and then have the rest of the drum sample come way down, like a switch, the MPC can only add a decay, which does add punch, but not like a compressor can.

Don't forget the MPC has the attack/decay - velocity modulation which is basically what your talking about doing wityh a compressor, and this is in addition to the (this is an example) play "sample" if velocity is over "30" on pad C14, whcih you can in turn set to play a ghost sample with just a attack or decay on it....I'm telling you, cats dont tap the power of the MP.

Itrs all good though, this arguing brought out some new concepts.

wow u guys were really going at it hard...everyone needs to just calm down a bit though because at the end of the day...we all still trying to get and learn from each other...or else we would'nt even have the time to be on these forums like this....we would be too busy working.....so breath easy and each one teach one homies.......

Impressive info from everyone though.....

and thanks for the help that i needed.....

yeah people don't realy tap the power of the MPC.

I've had my upgraded 60 for years and I know it well, but I keep thinking of new ways to use different features and it keeps surprising me how much is hiding in there still.

still nnot getting what yur saying, i gonna stick with what i know about compressors, and u stick with what you know about what you know.

as for that track, look whn i said it was created, i have learnt from then.

but the biggest thing, is tht there are no compression on the track, and tht is standard 808 kit with a layered snare, the orchestra isnt even a sample.

y not use "the coming" as an example. ey

I run my Mixdown Through a BBE DI 1000 into my Computer to make shit BANG!

I guess...

The only thing a compressor will do, to a kick drum for instance, is give it that tennis ball bounce sound, which most people are not into (Imagine doing this on every beat - wack).

Besides that, the only time one should be used is when sampling from a quiet record, allowing you to gate out the noise while making the kick/snare/hat louder. Thats it.
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nah roley you've missed my point, again only focusing on the original application of compressors...peeps dont just use them to bring quiet sounds up in level...

greg

You couln't be more wrong than that man. If the only thing you can do with your compressor is make a kick sound like a tennisball, you either have a very bad compressor, or not a lot of experience with compression.
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lol, ieism is on point there!

greg

if you do not know how to use a compressor to thicken a kick, i think you have uSed it too much to thinken your head, why compare the attack and releae times on the mpc, to a compressor if you know they are different, DUH??? and this tennis ball effect, i think you have been masturbating too much and your going deaf. the reason why it sounds like a tennis ball is because the attack time is set too short, so the whole transient of the wave does not pass through,

am

ever heard about sidechaining. ducking, frequency response side chaining, creating pumping,

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT COME ONTO THESE FORUMS, MISGUIDING AND MISS INFORMING OTHER CATS ABOUT THE USE OF GEAR.

I CAN UNDERSTAND IF SOME ONE MAKES A MISTAKE, NO ONE IS PERFECT, IT HAPPENS , WE COME HERE TO LEARN, NO ONE PERSON CAN KNOW EVERYTHING, AND ONE MAY HAVE BEEN SCHOOLED BAD FROM THE START, hence one purpose of the forums.



BUT TO COME ON HERE, AND BE WRONG, AND STRONG AND IGNORANT WITH AN ATTITUDE IS JUST BLOODY REDICULOUS.

TAKE HEED...
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and damn skawala is total;ly on point- this goes back to a thread a while back where i was sayibng i hate these peeps who just come here and say you dont need such and such just cause they dont understand how to use them and are under the ill deserved belief that there is nothing that could improve their productions...

they need to realise there are some serious cats on here with a lot of knowledge

greg

Compression is needed end of story, but besides that I have a question seriously concerning this topic that hopefully will not lead into an argument... I have the dbx 266XL... Cheap, but I've heard it's nice... (I say I've heard cause I can't seem to get good results with it)... I was wondering if theres something I am doing wrong here or what, but it seems to be that everything I do on it is over-compressed or it just bangs wrong or something... Either that or the attack is too quick and it sounds squashed....

I mean I believe I've tried just about everything with this compressor and so far it feels like I've wasted 200 bucks (or whatever I paid for that thing)....

If it is the gear thats not a huge problem cause I can always sell it and put that money towards a better compressor, but I'd hate to sell it and then save up for an Avalon 737 only to find out I had no concept of compression of it as it is and end up wasting 1100 dollars instead of 200...

I mean thats an extremem example cause you can never really waste money on an Avalon... You're gonna be gettin quality regardless.... But without the basic concepts to work an Avalon whats the use.... Is there any tips you guys can give... Or possibly some advice on a better compressor thats now quite as pricey as the Avalon????

Any help is greatly appreciated....

ive got one of those...yeah they can sound like that if you dont spend a bit of time tweaking

i generally find the overeasy setting a little too much....and dont really compress more than -6 to 8 db on any given thing...auto can actually work really well on drums and stuff but i find that the only way to get the sound back to normal is overdo the gain makeup....normally when registering say -3db of gain reduction i find i often have to boost the gain makeup by more than 3db- sometimes nearer to 6db depeneding on the source material (snares for example are a bugger to get right sometimes!!) - ive found this is much more true with the 266xl than say the behringer, joe meek or alesis compressors ive used before..... i gerenally like the compressor- have used better but serves my needs

but id suggest a focusrite if you wanna get something more pro and not break the bank...why focusrite? well one of the models comes with presets(boo hiss) which will help you hear what is beeing done to hte sound at any given settings- you may not use them but they will help you dial in settings quicker with a better understanding of the controls....:

perhaps this will help, its about comping subs but is useful info:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
stereo drum compression can be tricky. It really depends on the tune how much "pump" you want, but I generally am sucking between 3 and 6 dB out of the drums. Usually I start with a crazy low threshold so it's riding the compressor fully. then, with the fastest release, I slow down the attack until the kick and snare are popping as I like (you may need to pull the threshold back up a bit while you do this). Once I got the front-end of the waveform happening, I slow down the release so it fits with the tempo of the music. Often times, the fastest release gives you the most "in your face" sound, but can make the drums a bit overpowering. At this point, I raise the threshold to the point it sounds best. Got to use your ears!

For dance music, often times the kick will be too prominent to send to the drum compressor full on at the level you want to hear it in the track. With all the low-end EQ gain you're probably doing, it will rob headroom and suck the life out of the rest of the drums. When this happens, I use an aux send or cloned track to send to the compressor with the rest of the drums. The main kick, which has its own compression (maybe compressed together with the bass), goes to the main buss. That way, you still get the "suck" when the kick hits, but you can control how much with the "ghost kick" clone track/aux send thingy. Just be VEEEERY careful of phase alignment when you do this. Plug-in delay compensation can't always keep up with these kinda of routings. Again... use your ears!
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and also for the completely unitiated- not aimed for you Matt:

Well, I’m trying to work on explaining concepts like these in case I ever get a teaching gig. Here's another post on compression I made recently on the Sonar forums that I thought was well put, if I do say so myself.

The main thing to ask yourself when faced with the "should I compress?" question is "will it make it sound better?"

The way I see it, compression falls into three main categories:

Transient manipulation: This is when the attack and release settings are used to drastically alter the waveform of the incoming material. Mostly used with drums and bass with slow attack and fast release to make them "punchy" or "pumpy"

Levelling: This is using a compressor as you would your hand on a fader, riding the material so that the quiet parts aren't quite so quiet and the loud parts aren't so loud... reducing the dynamics (which a compressor always does, but in this case, you're trying to do it unnoticeably, with little distortion to the original waveform shape) slow attack and release, gentle ratios, soft knees, and make up gain are the key ingredients to this function.

Gain: This is what your mastering limiters (read: fast compressors) are trying to achieve. High threshold and fast attack/release times catch just the most transient of material, allowing you to brick wall headroom-robbing peaks and bring up the entire program to make the apparent level louder without clipping. This is usually only done in mastering, though it can be nice for certain elements in mixtime.

As you learn and experiment more with compression, keep these three main ideas in mind, and they will help you decide if compression is really required for any particular situation.

"Do I need to change the 'punchiness' of this sound?

"Do I need to smooth the dynamics of this track?"

"Is my track loud enough?"

something to keep in mind when asking "does this compressor improve the sound?" is the fact that louder almost always sounds better. Almost all compression, when makeup gain is applied, increases the apparent volume of your material. You need to A/B with an apparent-level-matched version of the uncompressed signal to truly determine if you're making it sound better through compression, or just louder.
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greg

WOW .....................


A True LOADED QUESTION N IT SHOWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


4 PGS

dubmunkey wrote:
they need to realise there are some serious cats on here with a lot of knowledge



ive got one of those...yeah they can sound like that if you dont spend a bit of time tweaking

i generally find the overeasy setting a little too much....and dont really compress more than -6 to 8 db on any given thing...auto can actually work really well on drums and stuff but i find that the only way to get the sound back to normal is overdo the gain makeup....normally when registering say -3db of gain reduction i find i often have to boost the gain makeup by more than 3db- sometimes nearer to 6db depeneding on the source material (snares for example are a bugger to get right sometimes!!) - ive found this is much more true with the 266xl than say the behringer, joe meek or alesis compressors ive used before..... i gerenally like the compressor- have used better but serves my needs

but id suggest a focusrite if you wanna get something more pro and not break the bank...why focusrite? well one of the models comes with presets(boo hiss) which will help you hear what is beeing done to hte sound at any given settings- you may not use them but they will help you dial in settings quicker with a better understanding of the controls....:

perhaps this will help, its about comping subs but is useful info:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
stereo drum compression can be tricky. It really depends on the tune how much "pump" you want, but I generally am sucking between 3 and 6 dB out of the drums. Usually I start with a crazy low threshold so it's riding the compressor fully. then, with the fastest release, I slow down the attack until the kick and snare are popping as I like (you may need to pull the threshold back up a bit while you do this). Once I got the front-end of the waveform happening, I slow down the release so it fits with the tempo of the music. Often times, the fastest release gives you the most "in your face" sound, but can make the drums a bit overpowering. At this point, I raise the threshold to the point it sounds best. Got to use your ears!

For dance music, often times the kick will be too prominent to send to the drum compressor full on at the level you want to hear it in the track. With all the low-end EQ gain you're probably doing, it will rob headroom and suck the life out of the rest of the drums. When this happens, I use an aux send or cloned track to send to the compressor with the rest of the drums. The main kick, which has its own compression (maybe compressed together with the bass), goes to the main buss. That way, you still get the "suck" when the kick hits, but you can control how much with the "ghost kick" clone track/aux send thingy. Just be VEEEERY careful of phase alignment when you do this. Plug-in delay compensation can't always keep up with these kinda of routings. Again... use your ears!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and also for the completely unitiated- not aimed for you Matt:

Well, I’m trying to work on explaining concepts like these in case I ever get a teaching gig. Here's another post on compression I made recently on the Sonar forums that I thought was well put, if I do say so myself.

The main thing to ask yourself when faced with the "should I compress?" question is "will it make it sound better?"

The way I see it, compression falls into three main categories:

Transient manipulation: This is when the attack and release settings are used to drastically alter the waveform of the incoming material. Mostly used with drums and bass with slow attack and fast release to make them "punchy" or "pumpy"

Levelling: This is using a compressor as you would your hand on a fader, riding the material so that the quiet parts aren't quite so quiet and the loud parts aren't so loud... reducing the dynamics (which a compressor always does, but in this case, you're trying to do it unnoticeably, with little distortion to the original waveform shape) slow attack and release, gentle ratios, soft knees, and make up gain are the key ingredients to this function.

Gain: This is what your mastering limiters (read: fast compressors) are trying to achieve. High threshold and fast attack/release times catch just the most transient of material, allowing you to brick wall headroom-robbing peaks and bring up the entire program to make the apparent level louder without clipping. This is usually only done in mastering, though it can be nice for certain elements in mixtime.

As you learn and experiment more with compression, keep these three main ideas in mind, and they will help you decide if compression is really required for any particular situation.

"Do I need to change the 'punchiness' of this sound?

"Do I need to smooth the dynamics of this track?"

"Is my track loud enough?"

something to keep in mind when asking "does this compressor improve the sound?" is the fact that louder almost always sounds better. Almost all compression, when makeup gain is applied, increases the apparent volume of your material. You need to A/B with an apparent-level-matched version of the uncompressed signal to truly determine if you're making it sound better through compression, or just louder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




greg

greg

^^^^^^^
woaaaaaaaaaah
show dem rude boy!!!!!

dubmunkey wrote:ive got one of those...yeah they can sound like that if you dont spend a bit of time tweaking

i generally find the overeasy setting a little too much....and dont really compress more than -6 to 8 db on any given thing...auto can actually work really well on drums and stuff but i find that the only way to get the sound back to normal is overdo the gain makeup....normally when registering say -3db of gain reduction i find i often have to boost the gain makeup by more than 3db- sometimes nearer to 6db depeneding on the source material (snares for example are a bugger to get right sometimes!!) - ive found this is much more true with the 266xl than say the behringer, joe meek or alesis compressors ive used before..... i gerenally like the compressor- have used better but serves my needs

but id suggest a focusrite if you wanna get something more pro and not break the bank...why focusrite? well one of the models comes with presets(boo hiss) which will help you hear what is beeing done to hte sound at any given settings- you may not use them but they will help you dial in settings quicker with a better understanding of the controls....:

perhaps this will help, its about comping subs but is useful info:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
stereo drum compression can be tricky. It really depends on the tune how much "pump" you want, but I generally am sucking between 3 and 6 dB out of the drums. Usually I start with a crazy low threshold so it's riding the compressor fully. then, with the fastest release, I slow down the attack until the kick and snare are popping as I like (you may need to pull the threshold back up a bit while you do this). Once I got the front-end of the waveform happening, I slow down the release so it fits with the tempo of the music. Often times, the fastest release gives you the most "in your face" sound, but can make the drums a bit overpowering. At this point, I raise the threshold to the point it sounds best. Got to use your ears!

For dance music, often times the kick will be too prominent to send to the drum compressor full on at the level you want to hear it in the track. With all the low-end EQ gain you're probably doing, it will rob headroom and suck the life out of the rest of the drums. When this happens, I use an aux send or cloned track to send to the compressor with the rest of the drums. The main kick, which has its own compression (maybe compressed together with the bass), goes to the main buss. That way, you still get the "suck" when the kick hits, but you can control how much with the "ghost kick" clone track/aux send thingy. Just be VEEEERY careful of phase alignment when you do this. Plug-in delay compensation can't always keep up with these kinda of routings. Again... use your ears!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and also for the completely unitiated- not aimed for you Matt:

Well, I’m trying to work on explaining concepts like these in case I ever get a teaching gig. Here's another post on compression I made recently on the Sonar forums that I thought was well put, if I do say so myself.

The main thing to ask yourself when faced with the "should I compress?" question is "will it make it sound better?"

The way I see it, compression falls into three main categories:

Transient manipulation: This is when the attack and release settings are used to drastically alter the waveform of the incoming material. Mostly used with drums and bass with slow attack and fast release to make them "punchy" or "pumpy"

Levelling: This is using a compressor as you would your hand on a fader, riding the material so that the quiet parts aren't quite so quiet and the loud parts aren't so loud... reducing the dynamics (which a compressor always does, but in this case, you're trying to do it unnoticeably, with little distortion to the original waveform shape) slow attack and release, gentle ratios, soft knees, and make up gain are the key ingredients to this function.

Gain: This is what your mastering limiters (read: fast compressors) are trying to achieve. High threshold and fast attack/release times catch just the most transient of material, allowing you to brick wall headroom-robbing peaks and bring up the entire program to make the apparent level louder without clipping. This is usually only done in mastering, though it can be nice for certain elements in mixtime.

As you learn and experiment more with compression, keep these three main ideas in mind, and they will help you decide if compression is really required for any particular situation.

"Do I need to change the 'punchiness' of this sound?

"Do I need to smooth the dynamics of this track?"

"Is my track loud enough?"

something to keep in mind when asking "does this compressor improve the sound?" is the fact that louder almost always sounds better. Almost all compression, when makeup gain is applied, increases the apparent volume of your material. You need to A/B with an apparent-level-matched version of the uncompressed signal to truly determine if you're making it sound better through compression, or just louder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




greg

You are the man dub... Seriosuly thanks a million.... I have been tweaking my 266XL a lot, but this tutorial will help a ton... Thank you... I mean I don't expect to have the greatest drums on earth with a 150 dollar compressor, but so far I haven't been able to get any good drum sounds from it, but I know people that use it and they say it gets some nice sounds so I figured it was me... The funny thing is I'm really good at compressing bassguitar (one area where that compressor does pretty much shine at least as far as I've seen)... I've been hesitant to use the Auto settings, but as I have been reading on some sites and even what you said in your post... It can help a lot on drums sometimes...

Once again thanks man... This is why this site is here people...

Hey which protools rtas you fellas think can match the eq-ing that the avalon can do to your drums or anything else ? Am still trying to find some good eq for my drums specially, even though most do the same & its all about how you can rock the sh!t out of it, I still havent found one to hit the sweet spot in my ear, good things someone posted this up i been thinkin bout that avalon too.