good kick drum layering methods,info on diffrent kick drums

the only thing i have trouble wiht is layering kick drums, im trying to get a nice drum hit going but some times it sounds bad,i try to layer high frequency kick drums with low frequency kdrums but it never sounds as good as maybe kanye west or neptunes kick drums....i know im supposed to use eq's,reverbs & also tweek the mixer channels to be able to get that perfect kick drum hit,(example fat joe lean back, kick drum , i think thats a low frequency,kdrum....or even the black rob woa!!! kick drum,which bumps real nice,but when i try to do the same kind of kdrum,it just doesent,give off that same kind of bump,im good at layering snares but when it comes to kick drums im never fully satisfied with the final product...90% of my beats incorperate some kind of kick drum.........some times the kick drum hit is even worse when i mix in diffrent insturments,and samples, like when the kick drum hits at the same time as a snare, the kdrum hits a little weaker........can anyone also get me info on diffrent types of kick drums, pretty much any ideas and info on (hip-hop) type pf kick drums

I would start off sampling some kicks that you think are perfect, like the ones you mention, straight from the CD or vinyl. Then you have some nice fat kicks for your tracks that currently lack them. You can also do A/B tests between those & your kicks in the same machine. What you probably need to learn about is compressors & limiters.

those heavy scott storch kicks are pitched kicks with reverb and layered with modulated sine waves.

i really do need to learn about compressors,limiters and all effects,ive been focusing to much on the beat making side of the business,but wihout learing about mixing the right levels or compressing the right amount my beatz may sound just average!!! and thats definitly not what i want......by- the way this question is for DjChronoBeats...what exactly do u mean by the kicks are pitched kicks and layered with modulated sine waves,since im kind of a rookie can u help me understand exactly how to do either of these,also how much reverb should u add to a kick drum,iguess it depends on the situation and probably on the kick drum........but anyways i like to thank u both for giving me a much better insight on my question, i definitly would love to hear more on your ideas of getting a good kick drum sound....

Unless your beats are very slow you should be careful about adding reverb to them. Low frequency sounds being reverbed creates a really muddy swamp of noise. You really need to be able to eq the kick as it is sent to the reverb & eq the reverb signal too, to cut as much bottom end off so it is just the brightest edge of the sound that is being reverbed.

Besides getting a nice hot signal into the MPC, a 31 band eq is great for eliminating/adding frequencies to samples. Sometimes, just using a basic 3 or 4 band eq can add or remove too much of a sound. Example, you sample a nice kick, but it needs more punch. Even though you adjust the bass a little, it's still too much, or it's not enough. With a 31 band eq, you may have 6 different frequencies just for the bass, so you only adjust EXACTLY what you need.
Another tip, don't go crazy spending cash for the best eq. They all pretty much do what they are suppost to do. You may be able to find a nice used one on ebay for $40. It's probably the cheapest way to add a compressed sound without buying compressor.. alter the sound (on the eq), audition the sample, and sample it.. your done. The only bad thing about this is that your gonne be tweaking drums till you get perfection, but now those kicks can be thicker, and them snares can snap. It's a great addition for keyboards/modules because the 31 band eq's give the samples more life (older samplers give sounds more character). Some eq's even have high/low pass filters built in (mpc's don't have hi-pass filters!) so you can see the benefits of spending a few bux.
That's my cheapo tip of the year. Fat drums and filters for the price of a few zip disks.

ps.. and it's a good for layering samples too!

If the Kick aint comin' out right.. try layerin' them with a 808 or 909 kickdrum.

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DjChronoBeats wrote:those heavy scott storch kicks are pitched kicks with reverb and layered with modulated sine waves.

chrono, this sounds pretty cool... and maybe its self explanitory... but i'd like to hear more on this one... like: u pitch the kicks down a couple of semitones... what kind of reverb? modulating sine waves... anything more would be helpful.

@ dem.... maybe ur getting to focused on the layering forgetting to worry bout the rest of the mix? if u have a lot of sounds in the sub 200 khz range they're going to weaken ur kicks and make them sound like ur grandmas extra absorbency undergarments... put an eq on anythings suspect except the vocals. oh yeah, and don't shelve ur bass either...

yeah dual filters are your freind...something with resonance on both high pass and low pass...that way you can filter the top out- perhaps make a little resonance notch for low-mid audiblitiy and then high pass at say around 80-100hz or lower and crank the res up- that way you have clear tuned bass without the flab....

greg