Is Clipping Always Bad?

"thats pretty hot lamp! what do you record into a pc or a multitrack? "
I record in from 2kxl to Vegas as hot as I can with no clip.
I place all my tracks as hot as possible but my master mix volume is most of the time at -0.5 to maybe -2.0. When I finally mix everything right where I want it I save it as a final stereo wav. I then take that wave into Sound Forge for mastering. I do whatever processing I gotta do (most of the time processing will raise the db's. After wards I gently compress and raise to +3db. It clips yeah but it's not pronounced or harsh, you can't even tell I clipped it unless you put the wave on a computer. In your car or home stereo you can hear the clip at all. All I get is loud music..
That's what works for me, some will disagree some will agree but that's cool. Experimentation is something I do alot so I know what can work for ME.
"because some people are saying they let it go all the way up to +3.0db?? Isn't that clipping right there?? "
Yes, it's clipping but it's not always bad, some people clip on purpose for creative reasons, don't let the word CLIPPING scare you.

"right, with things like tape and tubes you have a lot more headroom for saturation. not that way in the digital world. "
For me, I see it that way also.

i try to keep mine at odb

once its recorded that way, itll stay that way even if you decrease the volume afterwards.

vakseen wrote:Also, say I record a verse and there's a word that clips while I record...if I keep this track and simply decrease its volume, will that word (track) still be distorted???

peezie wrote:once its recorded that way, itll stay that way even if you decrease the volume afterwards.

vakseen wrote:Also, say I record a verse and there's a word that clips while I record...if I keep this track and simply decrease its volume, will that word (track) still be distorted???

CO-Sign.

It's like once a car has been rear ended, you can get it fixed but it will still not drive/feel like it used to. You will never have that "new car drive feel" that you once had.

Just re-do the vocals,try to adjust the gain, placing of mic to mouth, emcee vocal/breath control or whatever you have to do so that no clips occur. Sound Forge has a clip restoration feature but it only works to a certain extent and it's just easier and less time consuming for me to re-do the vocals anyway.

elmacaco wrote:It can be OK in analog, in digital it tends to suck.

wooooord

yeah i def hear yall. i figured that...just wanted to make sure. if it ever happens its usually adlib tracks that get lowered anyways

good replies and knowledge dropped, thanks everyone I really appreciate it

~1

ah i see what you're doing- i often record to -0.5db straight into soundforge-

so what soundcard you on? the two ive used cannae handle more than 0bd and start to clip like buggery....its no prob as thats the level i work to but am interested in knowing how you're coaxing the extra headroom out- must be the card....

greg

what an idiot- weird how not reading one word in a sentance can completely change its meaning- i know what you are doing now- good trick when it works.....

greg

clipping in the digital domain is the worst thing that u can do especially on the master bus. If u have a track that goes above 0db then it nodoubt sounds like junk.

What you want is perceived loudness not a track that clips (meaning your waves are cut off at the top). Firstly i suggest that if u want your tracks mastered, then send them to a mastering engineer. If this isn't anaffordable option, then learn the basic elements.

There are 3 main ways to get hotter tracks non of which include clipping.
1. use a limiter
2. use a multiband compressor
3. normalize

using a brickwall limiter will give u a much hotter track than just raising the master gain 3 db. The one i use is from Universal Audio and it is called precision limiter. I also use Waves L2, which i place right before the precision limiter.

For a multiband compressor the one in cubase is very good as long as u know how to use it. I don't use multibands on the mastering bus anymore, because i prefer the results that i get with the above.

Once u r done the you normalize the whole wav.

Another key is to use the sony inflator. They claim that it is not a limiter, but it will give u a lot in perceived loudness.

If anyone wants to see if the pros are clipping tracks, just take any of your favorite tracks and look at the wav files. U will see that none of them clip.

What u will notice is that difference between the lowest peak and highest peaks are smaller as compared to your own tracks.

There is a huge debate in the current trend of squashing tracks with brickwall limiters, because it kills the dynamics of music. From 1990 on u can see the trend of really hitting a track escalate. If u look at the wav files from the 70's and compare it to a track from now or the 90's, then u see the difference.

Unfortunatley people mistake a louder track as being a better track so everyone is in a race to get a hotter track at the expense of dynamics.

Many people are proposing that there be a standard such as they have in the film industry. At some point i think that this wil be implemented, but in the mean time squash your tracks.

Lastly I export all my tracks at -0.3db and I can guarantee you that they sound louder than any track that has just the master fader raised to 3db.

Seeing the red in the digital domain is your worst enemy.

so you use 2 limiters? i guess the first to level at -0.3db and the second to catch any rogue peaks?

just tying to understand the benefit of two limiters....also i never normalize i always just use a limiter if i need to bring up the percieved level- again why do you normalize? i may be wrong but thought that was only used for very quiet waves...

greg

normalizing finds the peak value and raises all of the file by the same amount to digital zero, so this does something different to a brickwall limiter. each limiter has different characterisics. it is like using 2 reverbs on a vocal, each is doing something different.

ok understand that but to have two limiters would mean one of them is essentially doing nothing if the first one is set low enough....unless you're cascading them down in volume....
greg

no dub that is not the case. most drum samples are compressed right. so if i apply another compressor to the wave why does it still have an affect?. The answer is that a compressor lowers the peaks of an audio file and then boosts the overall level. If it is overdone then u can hear the compressor working which is called pumping or you will lose the dynamics, because the peaks are now at the same volume as the lows.

It should be noted that if u do use two brickwall limiters that u have to be very careful, because if you do not use them right the result will sound horrible.
Also a limiter is a just a compressor with a ratio over 10:1. what plug-ins do u have?

sorry dude just trying to understand properly- know what you mean about compressors- just that limiters are far more aggresive but yeah understand you now....

ive owned a number of different hardware compressors- none of the top-end...abnd also use the waves stuff- multi, l2 etc....and think that is where i was a bit confused- accidentially redid a -0.5db limit instead of undo in soundforge once and it sounded bloody awful!! looked like a squarewave too!

greg