Support and discussion for all of Akai’s modern standalone MPCs including the MPC X / X SE, MPC Live 1, 2 & 3, MPC One / One+, MPC Key 37/61.
By Straker Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:02 pm
I'm thinking to autosample some synth tones from Mc707 before selling it.
I have some questions before starting the mission.

1 Which stride value do you think is enough to have a good balance between quality and memory?

2 Does it makes sense to put the tail to 0 (no tail) and then adjust the decay afterwards from program edit (adsr)?

3 For acoustic high quality instruments (vibraphone, EP) is it necessary to use a stride value 1 (chromatic) or using a 2 or 3 value is enough and unnoticeable?

4 For continuos sounds like organs, is it better to again put the tail at 0 (no tail) and enable looping? Will it work?

Thanks.
User avatar
By NearTao Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:58 pm
Straker wrote:I'm thinking to autosample some synth tones from Mc707 before selling it.
I have some questions before starting the mission.

I mean, good on you man, it's definitely worth the time in my mind.

Straker wrote:1 Which stride value do you think is enough to have a good balance between quality and memory?

For Drum Kits... you'll definitely want a stride of one, and possibly multiple layers (the MPC can sample up to 4)

For general synths though... if there are a lot of FX... or BPM matching is important for example... you'll want a Stride of one... but for a lot of content a stride between 3-6 is probably fine. I would say the less "movement" there is between notes, the longer the stride can be typically. Experimentation though will help you learn what you do and do not like.

Straker wrote:2 Does it makes sense to put the tail to 0 (no tail) and then adjust the decay afterwards from program edit (adsr)?


Depends entirely on the sound for how much tail you need. The initial note held length is always one second though. Personally I try and capture a tail that is roughly how long it takes for the ADSR to let go or the reverb/delay to ring out.

Or... turn the FX off or set the ADSR on the synth you're sampling to have a 0 release. You can always try and replicate the FX chain on the MPC, and without FX it *can* be easier to find good looping points.

That said... I'd highly suggest turning looping off in Autosampler... I find it more of a waste of time and it can be quite distracting if you're not going to bother configuring it anyways.

For me... I'd say tail is usually three to eight seconds... just depends on what I am sampling. I've definitely gone as low as half a second. Do remember though... if you've got a crazy reverb that rings out for ten seconds, and autosampler is only recording the tail for two seconds, well that reverb tail is bleeding into your next sample... use this to whatever effect you may or may not want.

Straker wrote:3 For acoustic high quality instruments (vibraphone, EP) is it necessary to use a stride value 1 (chromatic) or using a 2 or 3 value is enough and unnoticeable?


In general, the less artifacts you want imparted due to pitch shifting, the lower stride value you want. On the flip side though, if you actually want to impart that characteristic, then sample with a stride of 12 or something. Depends how 'accurate' you want it to sound versus how much you want it to sound like a sampler. No art or science exactly here, just depends which you're going for.

Straker wrote:4 For continuos sounds like organs, is it better to again put the tail at 0 (no tail) and enable looping? Will it work?


I don't think putting tail to 0 is going to do what you want... you should definitely read up in the manual, or if you have it in Tutor's MPC Bible. The looping enabled in the autosampler isn't magical (although it could be in a future update)... but at least up to 2.9 firmware, the looper just looped over to points you specified and usually sounded pretty bad. Looping really requires some skill, an ear, and the patience to experiment for every sample. The fewer samples you have (or in other words, the larger the stride) the less work you have to do because there are fewer samples to get looping adjusted properly.

If you are looking to create flawlessly (or decently at least) looping samples, I'd also suggest you consider auto sampling in mono, stereo samples can be a real bear to get looping properly because you don't always have oscillator, phase, 0 through, or whatever alignment for a ton of reasons.

Anyways, hope that helps, and good luck!
User avatar
By MPC-Tutor Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:30 am
Disable FX on the patch (reverb, delay, chorus etc, but distortion, eq should be fine), no tail, note stride of 5 should be fine. Forget auto loop, useless. Just record a few seconds per note then add FX to the resulting program and velocity sensitive filters, amp etc

https://www.mpc-tutor.com/mpc-bible-tut ... tosampler/
By Straker Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:28 pm
NearTao wrote:
Straker wrote:I'm thinking to autosample some synth tones from Mc707 before selling it.
I have some questions before starting the mission.

I mean, good on you man, it's definitely worth the time in my mind.

Straker wrote:1 Which stride value do you think is enough to have a good balance between quality and memory?

For Drum Kits... you'll definitely want a stride of one, and possibly multiple layers (the MPC can sample up to 4)

For general synths though... if there are a lot of FX... or BPM matching is important for example... you'll want a Stride of one... but for a lot of content a stride between 3-6 is probably fine. I would say the less "movement" there is between notes, the longer the stride can be typically. Experimentation though will help you learn what you do and do not like.

Straker wrote:2 Does it makes sense to put the tail to 0 (no tail) and then adjust the decay afterwards from program edit (adsr)?


Depends entirely on the sound for how much tail you need. The initial note held length is always one second though. Personally I try and capture a tail that is roughly how long it takes for the ADSR to let go or the reverb/delay to ring out.

Or... turn the FX off or set the ADSR on the synth you're sampling to have a 0 release. You can always try and replicate the FX chain on the MPC, and without FX it *can* be easier to find good looping points.

That said... I'd highly suggest turning looping off in Autosampler... I find it more of a waste of time and it can be quite distracting if you're not going to bother configuring it anyways.

For me... I'd say tail is usually three to eight seconds... just depends on what I am sampling. I've definitely gone as low as half a second. Do remember though... if you've got a crazy reverb that rings out for ten seconds, and autosampler is only recording the tail for two seconds, well that reverb tail is bleeding into your next sample... use this to whatever effect you may or may not want.

Straker wrote:3 For acoustic high quality instruments (vibraphone, EP) is it necessary to use a stride value 1 (chromatic) or using a 2 or 3 value is enough and unnoticeable?


In general, the less artifacts you want imparted due to pitch shifting, the lower stride value you want. On the flip side though, if you actually want to impart that characteristic, then sample with a stride of 12 or something. Depends how 'accurate' you want it to sound versus how much you want it to sound like a sampler. No art or science exactly here, just depends which you're going for.

Straker wrote:4 For continuos sounds like organs, is it better to again put the tail at 0 (no tail) and enable looping? Will it work?


I don't think putting tail to 0 is going to do what you want... you should definitely read up in the manual, or if you have it in Tutor's MPC Bible. The looping enabled in the autosampler isn't magical (although it could be in a future update)... but at least up to 2.9 firmware, the looper just looped over to points you specified and usually sounded pretty bad. Looping really requires some skill, an ear, and the patience to experiment for every sample. The fewer samples you have (or in other words, the larger the stride) the less work you have to do because there are fewer samples to get looping adjusted properly.

If you are looking to create flawlessly (or decently at least) looping samples, I'd also suggest you consider auto sampling in mono, stereo samples can be a real bear to get looping properly because you don't always have oscillator, phase, 0 through, or whatever alignment for a ton of reasons.

Anyways, hope that helps, and good luck!
By Straker Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:32 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:Disable FX on the patch (reverb, delay, chorus etc, but distortion, eq should be fine), no tail, note stride of 5 should be fine. Forget auto loop, useless. Just record a few seconds per note then add FX to the resulting program and velocity sensitive filters, amp etc

https://www.mpc-tutor.com/mpc-bible-tut ... tosampler/

I watched your tutorial, very good one.
So you suggest no tail (as I thought) and a stride of 5 to begin.
If autoloop is disabled, how can I autosample continuous sounds like organs, strings, pads? I mean, if I just sample 2 seconds of an organ without looping, is the sampled organ going to be a "pluck" sound, ending after 2 seconds?
By Straker Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:57 pm
NearTao wrote:
Straker wrote:I'm thinking to autosample some synth tones from Mc707 before selling it.
I have some questions before starting the mission.

I mean, good on you man, it's definitely worth the time in my mind.

Straker wrote:1 Which stride value do you think is enough to have a good balance between quality and memory?

For Drum Kits... you'll definitely want a stride of one, and possibly multiple layers (the MPC can sample up to 4)

For general synths though... if there are a lot of FX... or BPM matching is important for example... you'll want a Stride of one... but for a lot of content a stride between 3-6 is probably fine. I would say the less "movement" there is between notes, the longer the stride can be typically. Experimentation though will help you learn what you do and do not like.

Straker wrote:2 Does it makes sense to put the tail to 0 (no tail) and then adjust the decay afterwards from program edit (adsr)?


Depends entirely on the sound for how much tail you need. The initial note held length is always one second though. Personally I try and capture a tail that is roughly how long it takes for the ADSR to let go or the reverb/delay to ring out.

Or... turn the FX off or set the ADSR on the synth you're sampling to have a 0 release. You can always try and replicate the FX chain on the MPC, and without FX it *can* be easier to find good looping points.

That said... I'd highly suggest turning looping off in Autosampler... I find it more of a waste of time and it can be quite distracting if you're not going to bother configuring it anyways.

For me... I'd say tail is usually three to eight seconds... just depends on what I am sampling. I've definitely gone as low as half a second. Do remember though... if you've got a crazy reverb that rings out for ten seconds, and autosampler is only recording the tail for two seconds, well that reverb tail is bleeding into your next sample... use this to whatever effect you may or may not want.

Straker wrote:3 For acoustic high quality instruments (vibraphone, EP) is it necessary to use a stride value 1 (chromatic) or using a 2 or 3 value is enough and unnoticeable?


In general, the less artifacts you want imparted due to pitch shifting, the lower stride value you want. On the flip side though, if you actually want to impart that characteristic, then sample with a stride of 12 or something. Depends how 'accurate' you want it to sound versus how much you want it to sound like a sampler. No art or science exactly here, just depends which you're going for.

Straker wrote:4 For continuos sounds like organs, is it better to again put the tail at 0 (no tail) and enable looping? Will it work?


I don't think putting tail to 0 is going to do what you want... you should definitely read up in the manual, or if you have it in Tutor's MPC Bible. The looping enabled in the autosampler isn't magical (although it could be in a future update)... but at least up to 2.9 firmware, the looper just looped over to points you specified and usually sounded pretty bad. Looping really requires some skill, an ear, and the patience to experiment for every sample. The fewer samples you have (or in other words, the larger the stride) the less work you have to do because there are fewer samples to get looping adjusted properly.

If you are looking to create flawlessly (or decently at least) looping samples, I'd also suggest you consider auto sampling in mono, stereo samples can be a real bear to get looping properly because you don't always have oscillator, phase, 0 through, or whatever alignment for a ton of reasons.

Anyways, hope that helps, and good luck!

I always disable fx, lfo, autopans and so on anyway, I prefer to add all afterwards to the program.
I want to autosample the raw sound.
I get what you mean about stereo, there could be some phase issue, but Roland synths are good in stereo so I have to check and test.
If I disable looping, how can I sample continuous sounds like organs, strings, pads? Will not they become just "pluck" sounds this way, ending after a couple of seconds?
Thanks a lot mate, much appreciated, tonight I am gonna start the mission and check and test everything.
By Straker Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:14 pm
NearTao wrote:You can adjust the note length to continue the sustain of the note. Note Length in the menu is effectively how long the key/pad is held down for.

Do you mean note length from autosampler or from ADSR of program edit?
By Straker Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:27 pm
NearTao wrote:the Note Length in Autosampler... should have been more clear :D

No problem mate.
But how can I put an infinite length?
User avatar
By NearTao Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:53 pm
the maximum time autosampler can record for Note Length is 20 seconds for each sample it will record. If you want an infinitely sustained note on the MPC, you'll need to setup loop points and adjust your Program settings appropriately. I haven't tried an infinite sustain before... but I'd imagine you're going to need to set NOTE ON, and adjust ADSR values to taste for the amp and filter section.
User avatar
By MPC-Tutor Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:08 pm
Straker wrote:.
If autoloop is disabled, how can I autosample continuous sounds like organs, strings, pads? I mean, if I just sample 2 seconds of an organ without looping, is the sampled organ going to be a "pluck" sound, ending after 2 seconds?


Auto loop is terrible, it doesn't actually scan your sample to find the best loop, it just whacks a loop in and hopes for the best. Better to loop yourself manually, or invest in 3rd party software to auto loop the samples afterwards. In which case, sample for as long as you'll need to get enough loopable material to work with. This can be anything from 1 second to 8 seconds depending on the sound.

But many sounds simply will not loop even with good looping software, too much complex movement. Phasing oscillators are a nightmare.

This is why I say record for a decent length of time and accept your note will not play infinitely, it's just quicker and less hassle. Autosampler is cool, but it's ultimately not that good compared to other mature solutions, and no replacement for rolling up your sleeves and getting stuck in playing with the loop positions, tweaking, etc. I wouldn't use autosampler for any of my commercial expansions
By Straker Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:37 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:
Straker wrote:.
If autoloop is disabled, how can I autosample continuous sounds like organs, strings, pads? I mean, if I just sample 2 seconds of an organ without looping, is the sampled organ going to be a "pluck" sound, ending after 2 seconds?


Auto loop is terrible, it doesn't actually scan your sample to find the best loop, it just whacks a loop in and hopes for the best. Better to loop yourself manually, or invest in 3rd party software to auto loop the samples afterwards. In which case, sample for as long as you'll need to get enough loopable material to work with. This can be anything from 1 second to 8 seconds depending on the sound.

But many sounds simply will not loop even with good looping software, too much complex movement. Phasing oscillators are a nightmare.

This is why I say record for a decent length of time and accept your note will not play infinitely, it's just quicker and less hassle. Autosampler is cool, but it's ultimately not that good compared to other mature solutions, and no replacement for rolling up your sleeves and getting stuck in playing with the loop positions, tweaking, etc. I wouldn't use autosampler for any of my commercial expansions

Great to know.
I definitely have to test it properly, now I start, I was just getting informations to know how to deal with it.
I have the feeling some more questions will rise as I start using it.
So how do you do your commercial expansions?
Using some high quality software on computer and then convert all to a keygroup?
By HouseWithoutMouse Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:04 pm
There's great potential in the autosampler. If it could auto-chop, tune and key map a set of incoming notes, it could work even in a live performance. Play or sing or a few notes ... or even random noises, MPC automatically parses the whole mess into a playable instrument. It sort of kind of works already, except for the chopping and key mapping, which has to be made according to what the MPC plays as MIDI notes. I tried sampling a set of guitar notes a couple of times, and the result was really nice, but a bit too error-prone.
By Straker Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:02 pm
I made 10 keygroups and it's just the first day.
It's easier and faster then I thought and I have to say is very well organized.
Some synths with a 5 stride are just perfect and also having more options on program edit and insert fx, make it a very powerful tool.
Some EP with a 3 stride are a bit too heavy but sound great.
Also I could autosample some vintage organ with maximum note length. They don't have infinite sustain but a very long one, they are very useable and sound just perfect.
Of course some compromises are needed but it's definitely better then I thought.
Thanks for all suggestions, I keep going, 707 gonna be sold soon.