Any love for the TubeSynth?

EnochLight wrote:

Straker wrote:But as a proper synth, there are much better options today.

What makes a synth "proper", though? If you want advanced wavetable or additive synthesis or 8 oscillators with 32 note polyphony and Moog-quality ladder filters, then sure - you'd have to look elsewhere, but TubeSynth makes a perfectly fine subtractive synth IMHO (albeit with the limitations already discussed).

I dunno - when I see what MPC and Force are capable of as 100% fully standalone machines, even with all of the limitations of their included standalone synth plugins and sampler features, I just find it mind-boggling that anyone would have a hard time being productive on these machines as is - especially with 2.10 out (not saying you are saying that BTW). But I digress...

You don't digress, I agree with you, I also find it great that we have so many possibilities and tools on such a small box with 2gb of ram and an Arm chip.
I just think Akai made a beautiful job.
But talking about synths, if you use Reason and Thor, Maelstrom, Europa, Grain, and then go back to Tubesynth, well, ok, at least you realize Tubesynth is not the best synth plugin out there in 2021.
I mean, there is a huge difference between high quality synth plugins and Tubesynth, let's be serious.
Then again, Tubesynth is not a bad one.
It is what it is, a tool that can be useful sometimes.

I agree with you. Tube is not the best synth today. But for a 675€ gear, MPC One is the best machine I ever bought in my life. And believe me I had a lot of gears.
675€ for one of the best sampler, very powerful sequencer, with synths pluggins, drum synth, good fx. Almost a workstation. Clearly these MPC is not perfect. Fixes are awaited, more functionalities and pluggins.
But dawn, for the price, there is no real equivalent machine.

To focus on the threat this Tubesynth is not so bad in a mix.

Rank31 wrote:I agree with you. Tube is not the best synth today. But for a 675€ gear, MPC One is the best machine I ever bought in my life. And believe me I had a lot of gears.
675€ for one of the best sampler, very powerful sequencer, with synths pluggins, drum synth, good fx. Almost a workstation. Clearly these MPC is not perfect. Fixes are awaited, more functionalities and pluggins.
But dawn, for the price, there is no real equivalent machine.

To focus on the threat this Tubesynth is not so bad in a mix.

I also think Mpc is the best deal of these years.
I have a Live, and having 3 stereo outputs make it even better, you can use external effects, you can use external synths with midi and inputs, you can autosample.
It's just great.
What I really like on this Mpc are the effects, they are very good, and now with 2.10 all is covered, even granular and stutter.
Hype and Odissey are very good for me, the other plugins are useful anyway so it's good we have them.
Tubesynth can sound better if you route it out to 3/4 output and put some good quality hw effect to it, I tried with a Boss dd200 tape delay and it becomes more interesting. Or you can use something like analog heat or any good analog saturator.
Or you can use Air Lofi or try some Air fx of the bundle as insert on Tubesynth track.

Straker wrote:But talking about synths, if you use ... Thor, Maelstrom,

Yeah those are fantastic plugins for their time. Still use them today.

Straker wrote:Europa, Grain,

Well now, those are two very recent plugins, relatively speaking - and Grain is a graintable sampler/synth, not even in the same league as Tubesynth (which I would equate more closely to Reason's Subtractor).

Straker wrote:and then go back to Tubesynth, well, ok, at least you realize Tubesynth is not the best synth plugin out there in 2021. I mean, there is a huge difference between high quality synth plugins and Tubesynth, let's be serious. Then again, Tubesynth is not a bad one. It is what it is, a tool that can be useful sometimes.

At the end of the day, I think we agree - Tubesynth is a perfectly useable synth that does what it does extremely well and sounds just fine. I never expected it to hold up to some of the most popular modern 2021 plugins on the market, though. Thankfully, MPC/Force is the sum of all of its parts. Tubesynth is just 1 tiny part.

I agree that TubeSynth is closer to Subtractor, and I use both the MPC and Reason 10. Personally, I still don't see why TubeSynth would be regarded as sonically inferior to Subtractor. What exactly is inferior here? In my ears, the filter of TubeSynth has an additional grit and warmth that makes it superior in some ways. Don't get me wrong, I love the synths in Reason, and I love my precious Digitone FM synth too. But TubeSynth is definitely comparable with similar subtractive synthesizers out there. Surely not as versatile as something like Europa, of course.

for me hardware synth always sound better dunno something bout the outputs d/a adds something almost intangible but defo perceivable

but most synths in general dont sit well with samples in a hip hop context in my experience.

even when I compare tape strings on a microkorg or jv2080 to the tape strings on mpc i prefer the hardware

somehow the vsts typically are thinner; but the built in synths are still a good step in the right direction but I dont see myself using any of the onboard vsts extensively, maybe sparring use but I prefer the tonal richness found from hardware.

jpeg wrote:for me hardware synth always sound better dunno something bout the outputs d/a adds something almost intangible but defo perceivable

but most synths in general dont sit well with samples in a hip hop context in my experience.

even when I compare tape strings on a microkorg or jv2080 to the tape strings on mpc i prefer the hardware

somehow the vsts typically are thinner; but the built in synths are still a good step in the right direction but I dont see myself using any of the onboard vsts extensively, maybe sparring use but I prefer the tonal richness found from hardware.

will say the above are generalizations but most of these vsts never seem to hold my interest; and the sounds are often not astifying ; I would say Kontakt instruments are the exceptions, it seems those sounds seem to sand on they own.

I got plenty of love for Tubesynth! It's built into my user template and I generally use it for Pads or chords. It's based on Vaccum Pro, which I use a lot, so I like the interface. Also, I like that it has built in FX so I don't use up so many slots on Keygroups. Automation is great because all the parameters are easy to find, and my favorite feature is that Tubesynth actually has control of the Pitch bend range (unlike Hype) so you can use it to make build up risers or drastic pitch modulations with the LFO. I've saved my own user presets in it, and used some of the presets as starting points for my tracks.

well, i always prefer hardware too, but i think it depends also on the whole production chain, i mean, my synths all go into my main mixer, which is a nice allen & heath gs3 (24 channels inline studio desk 1991), with its nice preamps, nice musical eq's and the whole analog path and summing stage. example: i now own a fostex r8 eight tracks analog tape machine. i can record simultaneously into daw thru my motu ultralite mk3 and to tape with the fostex r8. when i compare results, i usually prefer the tape version, more 3d, more punch, a bit more noisefloor but nice. the same i think can be said about vst plugins, to make them sound best you have to process them, to use plugins that impart a certain character, if not they usually sound a bit flatter and duller than hardware gear (no matter if digital or analog).

i'd like to point out again that Tubesynth, being a simple 4 voices subtractive poly synth, has one strong point: it has character on its own, i think they dedicated some effort into making it sound raw, a bit gritty, with many points into which one can inject some gain\saturation. the extra envelope is a bit weird but its a nice addition you don't find easily in simple synths. so what it lacks in novelty or complexity, it makes up for with character, imho.

hyena wrote:well, i always prefer hardware too, but i think it depends also on the whole production chain, i mean, my synths all go into my main mixer, which is a nice allen & heath gs3 (24 channels inline studio desk 1991), with its nice preamps, nice musical eq's and the whole analog path and summing stage. example: i now own a fostex r8 eight tracks analog tape machine. i can record simultaneously into daw thru my motu ultralite mk3 and to tape with the fostex r8. when i compare results, i usually prefer the tape version, more 3d, more punch, a bit more noisefloor but nice. the same i think can be said about vst plugins, to make them sound best you have to process them, to use plugins that impart a certain character, if not they usually sound a bit flatter and duller than hardware gear (no matter if digital or analog).

i'd like to point out again that Tubesynth, being a simple 4 voices subtractive poly synth, has one strong point: it has character on its own, i think they dedicated some effort into making it sound raw, a bit gritty, with many points into which one can inject some gain\saturation. the extra envelope is a bit weird but its a nice addition you don't find easily in simple synths. so what it lacks in novelty or complexity, it makes up for with character, imho.

thats the point tubesynth has no character; very bland and metallic with no character or tonal warmth, its very metallic sounding but perhaps it works in a mix but i have not found that to be the case as far as how tube synth fits with vinyl samples.

and this leads into the whole hardware vs vst discussion; in general more processing is required to get vsts to have that weighty 3d sound that often u et from hardware as a default

It sounds great in *intentionally* digital / electronic music. It's a wonderful lead synth. I find it great for drum n bass leads. Also adding a para eq + tube distortion can really liven it up to get that extra bit of wholesome sound you kinda expect from a synth. Ultimately though if it doesnt fit your goal it doesnt fit. Is the roland 303 a useless synth? A zillion people world wide have used it, its spawned entire genres and is synonymous with "acid" music but in the end its still just a single oscillator synth with only two wave forms (saw and square). By todays standards its a complete PIECE OF SHIT, but its still getting used... because it still fits some genres. Dont blame the synths for them not fitting, just put it aside and find the one that does.

Ultros wrote:It sounds great in *intentionally* digital / electronic music. It's a wonderful lead synth. I find it great for drum n bass leads. Also adding a para eq + tube distortion can really liven it up to get that extra bit of wholesome sound you kinda expect from a synth. Ultimately though if it doesnt fit your goal it doesnt fit. Is the roland 303 a useless synth? A zillion people world wide have used it, its spawned entire genres and is synonymous with "acid" music but in the end its still just a single oscillator synth with only two wave forms (saw and square). By todays standards its a complete PIECE OF ****, but its still getting used... because it still fits some genres. Dont blame the synths for them not fitting, just put it aside and find the one that does.

Agreed! My Alesis Micron was released in 2004 but I love the sound and the features! Tube synth is pretty comparable to the Micron, simple envelope and LFO controls plus a couple built-in FX. For my purposes Tubesynth works perfectly fine. I've used it for all kinds of sounds and I will continue to get good use out of it.

hyena wrote:i'd like to point out again that Tubesynth, being a simple 4 voices subtractive poly synth, has one strong point: it has character on its own, i think they dedicated some effort into making it sound raw, a bit gritty, with many points into which one can inject some gain\saturation. the extra envelope is a bit weird but its a nice addition you don't find easily in simple synths. so what it lacks in novelty or complexity, it makes up for with character, imho.

This was exactly the point I was making with the original post in this thread. Character is the word. Well said!

Ultros wrote:It sounds great in *intentionally* digital / electronic music. It's a wonderful lead synth. I find it great for drum n bass leads. Also adding a para eq + tube distortion can really liven it up to get that extra bit of wholesome sound you kinda expect from a synth. Ultimately though if it doesnt fit your goal it doesnt fit. Is the roland 303 a useless synth? A zillion people world wide have used it, its spawned entire genres and is synonymous with "acid" music but in the end its still just a single oscillator synth with only two wave forms (saw and square). By todays standards its a complete PIECE OF ****, but its still getting used... because it still fits some genres. Dont blame the synths for them not fitting, just put it aside and find the one that does.

I would agree with this as far as tube synth being good in context for the intended genre; I probably am a bit to harsh with the critique and would need to explore it using it in a non hip hop context

The 303 was an extremely rare exception, though. There are a multitude of reasons why it became so popular (unrelated to its original purpose). Can't really compare the 303's history to something like TubeSynth, IMHO... But I think I get the OP's gist of it - it's certainly up to the artist to find use in the device..