MIDI clock out erratic / unreliable?

Hi All, I am wondering to what degree the MIDI clock out from the MPC - using the DIN cables - is precise in comparison to a laptop's or other devices' such as my OXI One.

I am asking because I noticed something strange for the first time this weekend, by hooking up to my MPC an external digital delay effect pedal that uses MIDI to sync with my MPC-X running firmware 2.11.3.

Particularly immediately after starting transport on the MPC, the delay creates strange, "elastic" sounds caused by what I believe is the early clock signals appearing inconsistent to the "reader" device.

I get a similar effect if I use another clock source like the OXI One, with a big difference. With the OXI, after a while, the clock readings become stable. With the MPC, I will keep getting odd delay sounds like if the clock was still unstable.

Can you explain what's happening there and how you would solve the erratic clock problem? Thanks!

G.

The problem here is that the MPC does not send clock continuously; the clock starts when Start ks pressed. Therefore any syncronized devices cannot calculate tempo before play starts, and the things like delays will wobble all over the place before setting down.

This is a common problem with MIDI clock, since the MIDI spec does not say how the clock should behave when the transport is "stopped."

Thanks @Jamos that surely justifies the early wobbling, but what about the wobbling that lasts with the MPC, in comparison to other sources of MIDI clock I’ve tried, that seem to stabilize better after a while?

I wish that there was a way to measure the difference with some experiment.

Does your delay unit take tap tempo input? You could drive that from a cv/gate program. Or maybe with the MPC's metronome click if you just crank the output.

Thanks @HouseWithoutMouse, the pedal is a Beebo so I can force the tempo I need. I’m more interested in the phenomenon in general and if it is a characteristic of MIDI in general or the MPC is particularly bad at it.

I'm afraid it's an issue with the MPC and not MIDI in general. I clock all my external hardware from the MPC and one of the devices is a Roland TR-6S where the out of sync problem is most noticeable. When hitting Play/Start on the MPC I get a short hiccup on the first beat from the TR-6S and it sounds like instruments get triggered twice. You can also hear how the MPC and the TR-6S are out of sync when playing a kick on both devices on the same beat. It's slightly phasing.

Mind you, when I clock everything from the TR-6S (going into the MPC) it's all in sync, no hiccups or double triggered notes.

Thanks @bM3w that answers my questions. Do we know if this is firmware-dependent and we need to tell Akai, or hardware defect there's nothing we can do about?

It could be possible to get a more stable MIDI clock by taking an audio or cv/gate pulse from the MPC and converting it to MIDI clock with an external converter box. I suppose the MPC's positioning of notes and CV pulses on audio timeline should be sample-accurate?

If I understood the manual correctly, Arturia Keystep 37 could be used as a converter.
https://downloads.arturia.com/products/ ... 0_0_EN.pdf

When KeyStep is in Slave mode:
- The Tempo controls will not control the internal sequencer or arpeggiator while the external source is running.
- The KeyStep transport section will still perform as usual; you can still stop, start and pause the internal sequences and the arpeggiator, and you can still record sequences.
- When the external source is not running, KeyStep will function according to its internal clock at the last known tempo.
- KeyStep will pass the synchronization messages it receives from the external source to all three clock outputs, and will convert all clock types to MIDI clock for the MIDI and USB outputs

Though here someone is saying he couldn't get it to work https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/c ... _it_exist/

From what I can see, many people who care about sync accuracy, do not use MIDI Clock from audio-based DAWs at all - and the MPC is an audio-based DAW-in-a-box - but instead use audio pulses for sync. It is accurate and free from various messing-up caused by the complicated software+hardware stacks in DAW machines.

I know this is an old post but the work around I found was to make sure the external gear tempo was setup to the same tempo as the mpc before changing the midi clock to external source. Probably not the best solution for live situations though but it helped me.

Swilly wrote:I know this is an old post but the work around I found was to make sure the external gear tempo was setup to the same tempo as the mpc before changing the midi clock to external source. Probably not the best solution for live situations though but it helped me.

I finally have everything set up an d talking to each other in a nice flexible productive flow, but am dealing with sync problems and latency that may kill this whole approach. I have both an LXR-02 drum machine and an Edge connected to my MPC midi out. Sometimes I want these clocked and sometimes receiving midi notes from the MPC. I had the LXR-02 clocked yesterday and the Edge receiving notes and the edge was sitting behind the the LXR in timing. The LXR sets to External when you turn the bpm to zero, which is a cool approach to setting up external clock, but also means I can't set the bpm in the same range

Hi, Then an affordable clock like Midronome could be your solution.

https://www.midronome.com/

MPC_Maschinist wrote:Hi, Then an affordable clock like Midronome could be your solution.

https://www.midronome.com/

I this a response to my post of the threads above?

Neodymium wrote:

MPC_Maschinist wrote:Hi, Then an affordable clock like Midronome could be your solution.

https://www.midronome.com/

I this a response to my post of the threads above?

Yes because of your sync challenges.

I've been thinking about making the LXR-02 drum machine the master clock, but I haven't quite figured it out. But with your suggestion of the midronome, how would you suggest I integrate it into my setup?

Hi, Your setup is impressive!

IMO you could use Midronome as the master clock. It has 2 DIN MIDI outputs. I use only one MIDI output and distribute the clock and tempo signals via a Kenton MIDI Thru box. Of course you would need a much bigger Thru box in order to connect all your synths.

Regarding sync with DAW (if necessary at all for you):
You can sync Midronome to DAW's clock or vice versa. Here Simon from Midronome describes in detail the pros and cons of the current 3 methods and provides a deep dive manual for DAW syncing:
https://www.midronome.com/support

He is very responsive in his forum as well:
https://forum.midronome.com/