MPC One primarily as Live Keyboard sound module?

Ok, the topic perhaps sounds a bit counterintuitive? I'm going to give a "long version" with some background, but the short version is: Could the MPC One function as a sound module for a live keyboard player and what caveats could get in the way of this?

So, first of all, I poked around the forums and searched a bit and didn't find anything, but I am new here so please point me in the right direction if this has been discussed elsewhere - my bad if so.

Now then: Why on earth would I even want to attempt such a thing?

Few reasons
1: I hate the idea of keyboard workstations live like Kronos or ModX. I hate having my brain attached to my controller and I like using lightweight controllers (I have modded a few to be both stationary controllers AND keytars for gigs where I only have room for a single controller)
2: Sound modules in the vein of rack modules of 'yore are either woefully underpowered or strangely expensive despite being quite old (Integra 7 sounds great by all accounts but it's still $2k!?).
3: I don't ONLY want to use the MPC as a sound module. And this I think is the thing that makes the One appealing to me. I have DAWs on my computers and laptops, but lately I just haven't been cranking them up. I don't have the luxury of having computers dedicated to being studio machines, and I'm curious if having a dedicated, portable device with a different workflow would inspire me to write more often.
4: My live rig already primarily uses plugins with a bit of sample triggering.

So I play mostly in cover bands - the sort that keeps bar patrons drinking and dancing all night, though we play more Top 40 and dance than most. And my current rig is based around Intel NUC pcs and the Cantabile VST hosting software. There's some fancy-ness beyond that - wireless MIDI for my keytar and some MIDI integration between my keyboard rig and the Ableton PC that controls pretty much everything else. It works amazing...about 80% of the time. And honestly from anecdotal accounts, that's higher uptime than most people who primarily use computers live.

So I need a backup rig. And I could just duplicate everything I use now but...the PC based rig is honestly a little overkill for this band. My last couple of bands called for a lot more synth control - messing with filters live and the like - or just generally using a greater number of different sounds. I could buy another Intel NUC, copy all my plugins over, setup Cantabile again, and have a rig that will...mostly just sit there. 1 in 5 nights or so it might get flipped over to, hopefully work, and then go back to it's home in a rack drawer somewhere. Versus an MPC which - might even become my primary rig - and then when it's not being a workhorse, could also potentially be a creative machine.

I understand this doesn't seem to be what the One is designed for - but my understanding is that the recent firmware updates added a mode specifically for this sort of thing so, I might be in the minority using this for a band where I won't be doing drum loops or heavily electronic music live but it seems like there is some support for my use case.

If anyone has experience using a One or LiveII as a sound module with a band, I'd love to hear about it or get pointed to resources - thank you all in advance and hopefully anything I've done against the norms of this forum weren't too egregious.

From what I can tell the Traditional keyboard sounds (Pianos Rhodes etc) that you can add, sound great, but lack the full dynamic expression. So they are fine for pop stuff and phrases within a beat, but compared to a keyboard geared up to play these sound they fall a little short. The virtual synths however stand up against VST comparisons.

If you are heavily into synth music, I'd personally get a keyboard synth, but if it's the mix of these tones you are after, the onboard and added mini D etc could be fine. As you'd need a controller with sustain pedal in, this could be where the traditional sounds come from, as so many of these are designed around having good pianos and electric keyboard sounds. You can then run this keyboard through the inputs of the MPC and take advantage of the MPCs FX, and mean that all your sound comes out of the MPC.

It can do the job, but it doesn't do it well. I use my MPC live, primarily as a drum machine, but a couple songs I play Virtual synths from my keyboards, virtual since it's running on the mpc. The big issue is that you can't use program change messages to call the sounds up, I do things in the opposite manner, I use the MPC to call up all the songs settings on my keyboards, and then if I want to, keyboard can be configured to play a sound in the mpc. The real issue you'll have with the MPC one, is that it only has two outputs, and you might not want to run drums and synth sounds through the same pair of outputs. I have a Live and use a separate output for synth sounds and it allows me to keep things under better control.

Thank you for the reply!

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "full dynamic expression"? Meaning - does the MPC's Rhodes sound not respond to a full range of note velocities and produce different volumes of notes - or are the notes not sampled at many dynamic levels? In other words - if I play softly and loudly, will the volume respond appropriately (even if the timbre doesn't always change like it should)?

When it comes to playing keys, I have paid my dues deep diving into synths and played many a synth-heavy gig, but I'm first a piano player. And honestly...the piano sounds that sound the best to me in rehearsal and feel good and respond like a real piano...are not the same as pianos that sound good in a mix with a band. I'm perfectly happy with a sampled piano sound live - so long as it responds dynamically, at LEAST in terms of volume if not multisamples.

The way the setlist for this band works out, I end up playing a lot more 80s polysynth kind of sounds, but it's always very specific sounds (like the Oberheim on Jump by Van Halen), so I can get away with samples there, too - I don't need to manipulate the sound, I need it to sound like the record.

As for needing a controller with a sustain pedal - I already had to solve that problem to make the "stationary controller that I can also strap on and play keytar with" work. The solution was midi or usb-midi pedals. So I'm not tied down to needing a controller with a cable attached to it.

Neodymium wrote:From what I can tell the Traditional keyboard sounds (Pianos Rhodes etc) that you can add, sound great, but lack the full dynamic expression. So they are fine for pop stuff and phrases within a beat, but compared to a keyboard geared up to play these sound they fall a little short. The virtual synths however stand up against VST comparisons.

If you are heavily into synth music, I'd personally get a keyboard synth, but if it's the mix of these tones you are after, the onboard and added mini D etc could be fine. As you'd need a controller with sustain pedal in, this could be where the traditional sounds come from, as so many of these are designed around having good pianos and electric keyboard sounds. You can then run this keyboard through the inputs of the MPC and take advantage of the MPCs FX, and mean that all your sound comes out of the MPC.

ooo...the not responding to PC changes is a big deal. Potentially dealbreaker. Thanks for replying, btw.

So our show runs on Ableton - without going behind the curtain too much, bandleader calls song, song starts in Ableton and that triggers my keyboard patch AND any midi triggers to my rig during the song, along with lights and anything else that song calls for (cues, clicks, etc). Setting up the show to run from the One and have that control Ableton would be....well probably impossible, but certainly a big task. The band is literally named Diversity - our repertoire is...large.

As for the outputs - most things are coming from Ableton. My keyboard is only allowed one input to FOH. I also currently run my bass and guitar through my PC (and vst effects) for the songs play them on and they get separate outputs, so ideally I'd have 3 outputs - but you can use an external sound card, right? And I'm already using one in my current rig.

jamos wrote:It can do the job, but it doesn't do it well. I use my MPC live, primarily as a drum machine, but a couple songs I play Virtual synths from my keyboards, virtual since it's running on the mpc. The big issue is that you can't use program change messages to call the sounds up, I do things in the opposite manner, I use the MPC to call up all the songs settings on my keyboards, and then if I want to, keyboard can be configured to play a sound in the mpc. The real issue you'll have with the MPC one, is that it only has two outputs, and you might not want to run drums and synth sounds through the same pair of outputs. I have a Live and use a separate output for synth sounds and it allows me to keep things under better control.

By coincidence I just did an indepth video about the topic:

The mpc ships with electric plugin, it’s sound is acceptable and yes, dynamic. You could upgrade to the stage ep plugin for a better sound, and there’s also my sampled key group expansions which feature up to 8 dynamic levels. Plenty of options.

https://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php ... expansion/

Scheater5 wrote:Can you elaborate on what you mean by "full dynamic expression"? Meaning - does the MPC's Rhodes sound not respond to a full range of note velocities and produce different volumes of notes - or are the notes not sampled at many dynamic levels? In other words - if I play softly and loudly, will the volume respond appropriately (even if the timbre doesn't always change like it should)?

Scheater5 wrote:Thank you for the reply!

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "full dynamic expression"? Meaning - does the MPC's Rhodes sound not respond to a full range of note velocities and produce different volumes of notes - or are the notes not sampled at many dynamic levels? In other words - if I play softly and loudly, will the volume respond appropriately (even if the timbre doesn't always change like it should)?

It will respond to softly and loudly, but have less multisaples layers to do that with, so rely on a filtering and volume to bridge the gap between the layers.

I use it mostly as a sound module, and for me it does the trick with some limitations:

* Too many bloated sounds in the Virtual synths (especially Tube and Odyssey). Luckily, the sounds tab helps arranging favorites and putting some order
* Expansions and keygroups are difficult to preview and handle, but that's inherent to samplers in general

For the paid plugins:
* Organ sounds good. It will never be a Hammond replacement for a real organist, but sounds very good to me and is versatile enough.
* Stage EP sounds OK, and the Wurlitzers and DXs are better than just OK. Overall a little synthy and artificial, but good EP sounds... again, it won't replace a Nord Electro.
* Stage Piano is the weakest, in my opinion. Sounds good in individual notes and simple lines, but too overloaded if you just try to play a standard piano song (something like Imagine, Cantaloupe, Fly me to the moon, Let it be...) . Again, that's inherent to all those Gigabyte sampled pianos: individual notes sound good and somehow realistic, but when played in chords and harmonies they resonate in a way that feels unnatural.

I still have to try Mini D and Fabric...

Neodymium wrote:

Scheater5 wrote:Thank you for the reply!

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "full dynamic expression"? Meaning - does the MPC's Rhodes sound not respond to a full range of note velocities and produce different volumes of notes - or are the notes not sampled at many dynamic levels? In other words - if I play softly and loudly, will the volume respond appropriately (even if the timbre doesn't always change like it should)?

It will respond to softly and loudly, but have less multisaples layers to do that with, so rely on a filtering and volume to bridge the gap between the layers.

I have noticed that too. Sometimes you can notice the gap between samples on the same key... Anyway, I doubt anyone but the keyboard player notices that

I did this for a while before I learned the sequencer. I was sending changes with a foot pedal, and it worked out pretty well. You can essentially treat each sequence as a new sound setup for each song. The keygroups are great but fall flat because of weak controller implementation. I had no fear of running my entire setup through it for FX too. It's both an FX and sound module really.