Arrangement View on mpc live 2

There is a lot of confusion as to what "an arranger is" on this thread.

A MPC has tracks, sequences and sequence chains (AKA songs)

A Force has clips, scenes and an arrangement which is really just the exact same thing as a MPC sequence.

However the MPC standalone doesn't have an arrangement view (or track view in the MPC Software)



Yes, there is absolutely no reason why the MPC standalone cannot have an arrangement view just like the MPC Software, especially when the Force (and MPC Software) do have an arrangement view.

Obviously AKAI wants to sell the Force, but in the process AKAI is artificially crippling the MPC so that there is some differentiation (that doesn't need to exist at first place, it's literally AKAI nickel and dimming their customers).

I'm fine with not having MIDI clips in the MPC, this isn't what I've bought the MPC for. I'm not fine with some weird omissions like no automation in submixes, returns and master tracks or the arrangement view, when the Force can do all that.

Would you be happy if you could see ONE sequence in the arrangement view? That's what the Force does, because it only has one sequence.

MPC-Tutor wrote:that was the MPC way

This is the way.

May the Force be with you.

If Ableton built a hardware box, that'd be the end for the competition, because it seems everyone loves that workflow. Personally, it just threw me into loop hell for a few years. I'd love if the existing song mode didn't suck so bad....that'd be great. Even archaic Nintendo tracking software had a more flexible song mode.

He said "Crippling"

The Original Selling Point was....A Standalone Drum Machine Sampler, capable of Making Music unshackled from the Computer. As an Added Bonus, you can Tether your STANDALONE machine and work in Controller mode to take advantage of the Power and Flexibility of the MPC Software!

We actually have the choice to work in a Standalone or Software Environment. It would Crippling if we COULDN'T make that choice lol.

Somewhere along the line, we've become spoiled...we want ALL the Features/BatteryPower/Storage/RAM/Ableton/Maschine..etc...all Crammed into an MPC ONE

None of the MPC Shortcomings stop us from making Music! I dont wanna see Arranger View on a Little A$$ 7" screen lol. To play Devil's Advocate...If it had HDMI Support...that would be a different story. Then i wouldn't mind Arranger on the ONE

I apologize now...bcz this will Ruffle the Feathers A bit

I've added a 'HDMI' smiley

jabberwalky wrote:If Ableton built a hardware box, that'd be the end for the competition, because it seems everyone loves that workflow. Personally, it just threw me into loop hell for a few years. I'd love if the existing song mode didn't suck so bad....that'd be great. Even archaic Nintendo tracking software had a more flexible song mode.

Ableton isn't going to do that. Neither Maschine + or the Force are a commercial success. Maschine + is objectively a flop. So much that NI is barely updating M+ 2,3 years after release.

mpc_fan_2022 wrote:

jabberwalky wrote:If Ableton built a hardware box, that'd be the end for the competition, because it seems everyone loves that workflow. Personally, it just threw me into loop hell for a few years. I'd love if the existing song mode didn't suck so bad....that'd be great. Even archaic Nintendo tracking software had a more flexible song mode.

Ableton isn't going to do that. Neither Maschine + or the Force are a commercial success. Maschine + is objectively a flop. So much that NI is barely updating M+ 2,3 years after release.

I agree, standalone hardware market is tiny, I can't see a company like Ableton who dominate the DAW market bothering with a distraction like that. I'm sure they are happy concentrating on what they know best. More likely someone such as Behringer to try causing some disruption, they've hinted at this previously.

mpc_fan_2022 wrote:Very little thought went into the Force 'Arranger'.

Force Arranger was in development for well over a year, practically written from the ground up for Force. Is it perfect? Of course not - as evidenced by the shade it constantly gets thrown - but to suggest no thought went into it is disingenuous, if not outright false.

I hope we do get arrangement view on MPC, but.. in the mean time why not just write your tracks or sequences to clips and do all of your arranging in one sequence with one clip program? isn't it kind of the same thing? I don't own a force, so maybe I'm missing something,
I think clips get overlooked as a songwriting tool.
I am curious to know how others have integrated clips into their workflows.

ShengTao wrote:I hope we do get arrangement view on MPC, but.. in the mean time why not just write your tracks or sequences to clips and do all of your arranging in one sequence with one clip program? isn't it kind of the same thing? I don't own a force, so maybe I'm missing something,
I think clips get overlooked as a songwriting tool.
I am curious to know how others have integrated clips into their workflows.

No need for an arrangement view. The track view is right there in MPC Software, so why didn't AKAI put it in standalone? I just want the Standalone to be on par with the Software when it comes to sequencing, and the other way around. I'm not asking to run vsts or something.

The goal of the track view is to be able to manipulate chunk of sequences the exact same way one can manipulate notes on a grid in order to quickly build up songs.

What is even more baffling is that AKAI isn't even coherent with what the software does and does not. For instance, the software does not support sequence markers, while the standalone does.

That's pretty much the same thing as the Force's "arrangement".

I just want it to do what it already does plus what Roland did a decade ago with the MV8800. Just want to plug in a large monitor to view the arranger mode

I'd be happy with a make do and have a usb to HDMI adapter if it was technically possible.

I actually couldn't get into the arrangement view on the Force. I was def drawn into the idea of this feature but in practice working with a large sequence on a small screen is not intuitive.

Perhaps the feature has improved since I last saw it. I think a smarter approach would be to do similar to what Deluge does but with the added benefit of the screen and extra buttons. In Deluge , each row of 16 represents a track and each pad represents a pattern that exists. So first you select a pad, pattern, and if you wish you can click into the pattern and directly edit it. However there is a further option to convert the pattern to a 'unique' pattern. So you can have non-destructive patterns and destructive patterns if that makes sense. You can also multi select pads to extend a pattern, e.g hold pad 5 to pad 8 to extend pattern 5 to 4 sequence slots. Obviously Force could do this but with 8 bars in view at a time. MPC could also do this but you would need an on-screen / qlinks function to scroll to next to track. For me hardware should make things more intuitive or creative, but I don't the the straight DAW like functionality of the Force arranger does this.

As a result I can imitate my idea above using the existing MPC song mode. And to be fair MPC song mode actually is dope when you use it right. I've made more finished beats using this vs Force. Although Force is more fun to build patterns.

robleighton22 wrote:I actually couldn't get into the arrangement view on the Force. I was def drawn into the idea of this feature but in practice working with a large sequence on a small screen is not intuitive.

Perhaps the feature has improved since I last saw it. I think a smarter approach would be to do similar to what Deluge does but with the added benefit of the screen and extra buttons. In Deluge , each row of 16 represents a track and each pad represents a pattern that exists. So first you select a pad, pattern, and if you wish you can click into the pattern and directly edit it. However there is a further option to convert the pattern to a 'unique' pattern. So you can have non-destructive patterns and destructive patterns if that makes sense. You can also multi select pads to extend a pattern, e.g hold pad 5 to pad 8 to extend pattern 5 to 4 sequence slots. Obviously Force could do this but with 8 bars in view at a time. MPC could also do this but you would need an on-screen / qlinks function to scroll to next to track. For me hardware should make things more intuitive or creative, but I don't the the straight DAW like functionality of the Force arranger does this.

As a result I can imitate my idea above using the existing MPC song mode. And to be fair MPC song mode actually is dope when you use it right. I've made more finished beats using this vs Force. Although Force is more fun to build patterns.

The song mode (AKA sequence chain) isn't terrible but you can't record notes and automations on top of it like a sequence nor do anything on the MPC while the sequence chain is playing.

Exporting a sequence chain back to a sequence is completely broken as well.

Since tracks can have different programs from sequence to sequence, obviously the export job will just match the track numbers regardless of the program, and if a sequence length is set per track, the MPC will not do the obvious thing of expanding the track length automatically to the global sequence length, leaving gaps....

It forces people like me who aren't into basic hiphop loops to only work with sequences at first place, the song mode just doesn't work.

The Roland MV8000 did solve all these problems 20 years ago. Not only it had an track view, but a "song" was just a sequence with a special track dedicated to chaining other sequences, allowing to record automations and extra notes on top of a sequence chain.