Mpckey61 Audio Input Latency - is there a fix?

Hey guys, so I bought an mpckey61 to be the main brain in my studio, and I keep butting up against issues with it so I figured I'd make a video of the newest problem I've found with the device to see if this is just my unit, if it's a setting I need to change, or what.

I'm having extremely noticeable audio latency when I use the audio inputs on the mpckey. I figured with all the track by track effects, especially the air vocal suite, things would be dialed in on that front and in time but I don't see how anyone could use the audio inputs in a live setting. I've created a quick one take video showing the latency in action, and how it compares to sound NOT being ran through the mpc key. Is this a bug? Are you guys dealing with this as well? Is there a way to fix it so the audio inputs can be used in a live setting? Thank you so much, this is my first post here, but I've lurked since my mpc 1000 days.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nLYhhoozy5s&t=4s

Unfortunately, you cant beat this problem. This how mpc works in real situations. Workarounds: manually shift each track after record or use controller mode - for me in controller mode latency little better (1-6 ms depends framerate and buffer size), but still persist.
For example. 96kHz, 64 buffer size and external audio card i can get 1 ms In and 2 ms Out latency, wich is aceptable.
Moreover, there is a midi latency in standalone mode and that is real disaster compared to audio latency.

The „effect“ is omnipresent with almost every digital processor.
You‘d get the same result with a PC or iPad, whatever uses software buffers during audio processing. It‘s not MPC specific.
If you‘re real picky even non buffered DSP systems (UAD, Digidesign, Creamware etc) have this offset once the same signal travels parallel on 2 different pathes. It‘s measured in samples, not milliseconds then, but the offset remains.

It becomes a problem only with the exact same source or if you want to layer (f.e.) drum sounds.
Most people simply ignore it, and it doesn‘t matter anyway with a bass or keys played over a backing track as long as the latency is in reasonable boundaries.

Vaksa wrote:Unfortunately, you cant beat this problem. This how mpc works in real situations. Workarounds: manually shift each track after record or use controller mode - for me in controller mode latency little better (1-6 ms depends framerate and buffer size), but still persist.
For example. 96kHz, 64 buffer size and external audio card i can get 1 ms In and 2 ms Out latency, wich is aceptable.
Moreover, there is a midi latency in standalone mode and that is real disaster compared to audio latency.

Do you think that's what's causing this extreme of latency? Because what I'm showing in that video is simply too much latency to be ignored. Midi is routed directly from the mpckey into that synth with no stops on the way, no other midi data being pushed out either.

You may check your setup again.
The length of the noise sound varies significantly in both „with“ and „without“ examples.
The synth comes in late in different intervals, 1600 to 2300 samples in example one, 1200 to 1900 samples in example 2, some hits are exactly the same in both.

I found it difficult to listen, so tracked it (48khz) and measured the distance from noise start to synth start in samples.

ps: my MacMini M1 has 400 samples latency (buffer 64) when receiving from Pro Tools and sending back via Audient ID22 Adat. (roundtrip)

Fontayga wrote:

Vaksa wrote:Unfortunately, you cant beat this problem. This how mpc works in real situations. Workarounds: manually shift each track after record or use controller mode - for me in controller mode latency little better (1-6 ms depends framerate and buffer size), but still persist.
For example. 96kHz, 64 buffer size and external audio card i can get 1 ms In and 2 ms Out latency, wich is aceptable.
Moreover, there is a midi latency in standalone mode and that is real disaster compared to audio latency.

Do you think that's what's causing this extreme of latency? Because what I'm showing in that video is simply too much latency to be ignored. Midi is routed directly from the mpckey into that synth with no stops on the way, no other midi data being pushed out either.

In simple words, if i take my synth and connect it to mpc, like you did on video, i will get about the same latency. Thats why i use workaround and not use mpc standalone as main unit.
So, if you dont like your latency, there only way - not use that setup. This is the way).

That is probably not audio-input latency but MIDI note triggering latency (MPC's MIDI Out or Synth's MIDI In). I tried recording the sound of an external groove box synchronized with the MPC using a looper, and the latency was only 14 samples.

MPCX has a direct monitor in knob. If the Mpc61 doesnt have that, then thats just a stupid omit on there part. It doesnt seem to be midi but yes some kind of issue with audio processing through the mpc creating it I'm guessing. This is an example why people were upset with the MpcXSE. They should be focusing on the timing of the machine and its sampling capabilities but this is all usual behaviour for Akai since after the Mpc5000. It's a shame. I would of thought the extra ram in the Mpc61 would of helped with that.

Not everybody can accept MPC L1 and L4 delay values. That is why the MPC is not suitable for professional use in such situations. Not all hardware have such a big overall delay, but MPC have. Unfortunately.

Vaksa wrote:
Not everybody can accept MPC L1 and L4 delay values. That is why the MPC is not suitable for professional use in such situations. Not all hardware have such a big overall delay, but MPC have. Unfortunately.

Good diagram, after measuring each latency, L1 was found to be 500 samples, L2-L3 around 200 samples (varies depending on the synth), and L4 was approximately 15 samples. In total, there is a delay of about 700 samples.