MPC X SE – EA-ski SONICS controversy vs BLACK LION audio mod

jpeg wrote:

B-Wise wrote:@jpeg, maybe your right about it being about looks for some people, but some it's more about other things like features, price, UI/UX...etc.

I like black MPCs vs the og color so the XSE color wouldn't be a reason I'd get it. The better specs is what gets my attention. Still wouldn't buy any MPC to use it for its sequencer which isn't built well for the way I like to make music, but that's what the Force & Pyramid is for.

as we know nothing new feature wise was added to SE and yet people that did not previous feel compelled to buy th eX suddenlt got the SE; so they woant admit it but their choise was driven by looks, and then people backwards rationlise what features are there to justify they purchase.

Truth

Yep, the current way of tagging samples, by putting the tags in the file name is an utter PITA, who thought that would be a great idea? I mean, they must have been looking at competing systems like Maschine etc, how could they not automatically implement a proper tagging system from the get-go?

And years later, still made no improvements. In fact they just bolted on another new (half implemented) sounds browser that doesn't even support browser previews or searching, just to really fragment things even further.

pedro_oliveira1993 wrote:I would like to be able to have a tagging system and I would like to be able to favourite files so I can quickly make collections of samples that are on my SD card.

MPC-Tutor wrote:Yep, the current way of tagging samples, by putting the tags in the file name is an utter PITA, who thought that would be a great idea? I mean, they must have been looking at competing systems like Maschine etc, how could they not automatically implement a proper tagging system from the get-go?

And years later, still made no improvements. In fact they just bolted on another new (half implemented) sounds browser that doesn't even support browser previews or searching, just to really fragment things even further.

lol the naming convention for items is pretty messed up. like i said two-ish years ago (and not to he hating on inmusic it is what it is) they are using us as their test bed. We paid for unfinished products so when folks are like "well akai doesn't *have to* give us updates." i disagree. we paid them multiple thousands of dollars they made MILLIONS of us they literally owe us a product that works and it seems to be getting more confused.

NearTao wrote:
You still selling those double helix twist patterned gold plated deoxidized classic USB 1.0 cables? I need that 1.0 warmth!

Yup still for sale. Also working on a new kind of tact switch that helps improve the bottom end frequency of the MPC. I'll send you a pm about it in a bit.

MPC-Tutor wrote:Yep, the current way of tagging samples, by putting the tags in the file name is an utter PITA, who thought that would be a great idea? I mean, they must have been looking at competing systems like Maschine etc, how could they not automatically implement a proper tagging system from the get-go?

And years later, still made no improvements. In fact they just bolted on another new (half implemented) sounds browser that doesn't even support browser previews or searching, just to really fragment things even further.

pedro_oliveira1993 wrote:I would like to be able to have a tagging system and I would like to be able to favourite files so I can quickly make collections of samples that are on my SD card.

It's, without shadow of a doubt, my main issue with them. I could be picky and think about 10 other features I would like to see implemented. But if they improved the browser I would shut up. I would even pay for that.

I'm currently in the process of making my folders into expansions just so I can remember the expansions exist. And I have no problem paying for stuff. But implement them in a way they work. I hate the concept of kits. But some expansions have cool sounds. They're just unbrowsable.

And while we're at it, a feature that let you choose which pads to load when you load a program would be great. Make it an option for people who dislike menu diving. But I'd much rather use the kits for the drum sounds than load a pre made beat and then having to delete and purge stuff.

I tried to have a favorites folder and save the sample if I liked it. I messed with symlinks. They're options that work, but they're also an hassle. Why give the option to have ssd's and huge sd cards when the UI for browsing the content is absolute trash.

pedro_oliveira1993 wrote:

johnnytravels wrote:Same. Please rip off Ableton collections. I'm not even asking for something more complex.

I wish they re-designed how programs work. Since there's no tagging/filtering system I don't really mess with the expansions. Pain in the ass to browse a simple one shot.

hmmm not sure i get it. when i browse expansions for one shots i use the search feature, put in the sound i want (eg: "kick" ) and preview them as i browse. you mean you want some way to tag your favourite one shots so you can browse your faves out of every expansion\sample library you have on the ssd?

hyena wrote:hmmm not sure i get it. when i browse expansions for one shots i use the search feature, put in the sound i want (eg: "kick" ) and preview them as i browse. you mean you want some way to tag your favourite one shots so you can browse your faves out of every expansion\sample library you have on the ssd?

Yeah. That is workable. I also do that. But I wish it was more streamlined. And it could be. And in some ways I wish they had a set of rules about file naming. Because in one expansion it's a "kick". Then it's "Kik", Hi-Hat, Hihat, Snare, Snr, Vocal, Vox, etc. The same for keygroups. Everything is just fragmented. I'm not gonna remember every iteration of a name. Rebuilding how expansions work would be great. But that's not realistic. I just don't get why the browser it's something that saw next to 0 improvement. I mean, not that long ago you couldn't even do a subfolder search. I got a 2500 (It does have JJOS) last week and I was baffled with how similar it still is. A basic copy, cut, paste, rename option would also be great.

I even got as far as bulk renaming and merging sample packs by maker to obey the Akai Expansion method. Just to make sure I was able to perform a general search without having to open 50 folders and 200 subfolders. That brings me to the 2048 files limitation. Which is absolutely a 1st world problem because I'm not gonna plow through 2048 snares. But it would be sweat if I could browse all the breaks (from a bunch of packs) through a tag. And I could even talk about the physical wear that you could prevent by optimizing the workflow.

Take NI system as an example. Pairing that with the touchscreen would be great. The ability to have a wide generic (well organized) set of factory tags. I'd much rather use the touchscreen to press "Kick" than having to write stuff. Not a touchscreen hater, but if it can be done in a better and easier way I'm down for it. If the programs worked with the files organized in their own folder it would be an improvement.

Then I'd like the ability to create user tags. Or something similar to the Ableton collections system. (I would appreciate something more advanced but I'll take what I can get). Renaming files would no longer be needed. (There are some sample packs I don't want to rename.) Plus I'd have way more fun tagging files in standalone while I listen to records or watch a movie instead of sitting on the computer messing with bulk renaming software. Packs tend to pile up. I think the platform has gotten advanced enough to deserve a reworked browser that's not 200 years old.

This way you had the option to have a super flexible browsing system that you could customize to your own taste. You could tag your packs, you could have the favorites show up in a folder in a low effort and easily undoable method. It's future proof and trash free. It would actually be a joy to search for a sound. Much better than loading, saving sample, go back 10 folders to the directory you want, save, etc.

And like Tutor said, the Sounds browser doesn't even deserve comments.

I love my MPC, don't get me wrong. But to me, these are the features that make it or break it as a platform. Not a Delay Pro or a Mini D, etc. Make stuff that doesn't get in the way. Think about your product with the user in mind. Expand, rethink and improve.

Why do you even sell dozens of expansions if you can't even create a system to properly showcase them? I like the DLC, but imo these are the features that sell the machine.

I'm not gonna EA-Ski against the browser, but I really dislike having options to do something better and not doing it. I bought Serato Studio because of the Stems. Don't have a bad word to say about the forums. Got a super complete spreadsheet asking for problems, improvements, what can do better as a brand, etc.

Yes, tagging is the way forward, just select a bunch of kicks, bulk tag and search for them easily. Tag your favourites, search by bpm, search by key and so on. Organising a sound library by file name is primitive to say the least. No one wants to have to rename their samples, especially with goofy tag names like 'Acoustic-Kick-HipHop-808-Loop-Detuned 808 Kick Tape 78bpm Dbm.wav'.

Don't know if it's the developers being tone deaf to user suggestions, or developers don't use MPCs and don't 'get it', or developers hamstrung by management, or whatever.

@pedro_oliveira1993
Intsead of all that tagging which would be ideal, you could take all those sample with different names for kicks/kik's & put them in 1 folder named Kicks. You could also rename them after. Tedious to do but so is tagging.

B-Wise wrote:@pedro_oliveira1993
Intsead of all that tagging which would be ideal, you could take all those sample with different names for kicks/kik's & put them in 1 folder named Kicks. You could also rename them after. Tedious to do but so is tagging.

Well, that's mostly what I do in regards to 3rd Party Packs. I always change the folder structure in most of them. Everything on a surface level. I strongly dislike subfolders inside subfolders unless it's absolutely necessary. I'm also not a fan of renaming 3rd Party Packs because I may want to reference files later.

I can't do that with Expansions because it'll break the programs. I can solve it with symlinks and make it work. But if something takes that much time, effort and workarounds it's probably time to revamp the whole thing.

Never really got into saving programs because it's so stupid that the .xpm file can't reference files in a "deeper" way instead of making copies of samples.

Adaptative shortcuts by window would also be great. Shift+Rotating Jog Wheel to jump from letter A, B, C, D, E, F, .... for a faster browse. Swiping with 3 fingers isn't exactly precise. Even the SP-404MKII has a shortcut for faster scrolling.

It's just a hassle. And I do disagree about tagging. We agree on being a bit tedious for some, but it's something I would enjoy doing passively watching sports, a movie, etc. And it's something that you can do from time to time. Bulk renaming requires way more focus and it's a chore. If they implemented it well enough tagging would take seconds. And it would be doable in standalone.

I understand that this is a 1st world problem. But I think it's a shame that such an advanced machine misses obvious things. Older machines, no problem. Part of the ritual. I've been renaming, converting, organizing on my 2500. Love it. We could go on about how back in the day people had to sample stuff from vinyl every time, had a library in their mind and 1.44 MB floppies. But we're not back in the day. And if you constantly release DLC and rave about how AWESOME the new gen MPC's are, make it count. Make sure you have a product that blows everything else out of the water. And there are A LOT of QoL features that could be implemented. Give me this over 4GB of ram or Juno vst's any day. But that's just me. Heck, I'll even pay for it.

Any example of the same sound with this warm and without it?

Like so many things: the iphone, honda civics, 60s chevys
What makes the MPC so special is its fanatic user base.

I’m just checking back in & see this had led to a whole 5-6 page discussion. I really look fwd to returning to beat life in 2024. For now, it’s the grind . . . . . . . . . . .

I personally thought the roland MV was the best but roland bailed on that platform & the userbase was way less active. When I sold my MV and bought the MPC LIVE, I felt like coming back home.

MPC GANG 4ever
The user base
Shepherds like AA Andy
The hardware shortcomings
The updates that creates more problems
The forum debates
The utube reviews
MPC OGs like EA SKI & alchemist


https://www.ableton.com/en/certified-tr ... m_type=all

The only gang bigger than us is ABLETON & that’s a software thing.
I never managed to make any dope music with my ableton push ;-(
With the AKAI FORCE, I probably never will . . . . .

I was on Roland Cloud for a while, but I just didn't find any need for it.

Sure, it has lots of good stuff, but I preferred the Triton VST for rompler sounds even though Roland Cloud had a much better interface, hardware integration, unification with Zen-core synths tones and a wider range of sounds.

I tried Ableton Push, but there were a few issues:
1. Although it has a decent sound library, it just didn't feel like it was enough for me I'd have probably continued using my VSTs and Reason Rack Plugin, but with the cost of the Push 2, it just didn't feel like a good value proposition (I bought one for my sister though).
2. Ableton takes way too long to load my drum patches, and it's default way of creating patches from my samples (or maybe it was its conversion from another format) was to create the wrong type of sampler, which didn't make sense.
3. And for the same price, I could have got so many things that were objectively better value for money (unless I had them already).

The Ableton Force was attractive because of the familiar workflow. Akai was definitely onto something with the Push 1 (which I had tried before the Push 2).

Now back to this topic, ... I played my MPC through an SSL audio interface with the SSL-4K legacy mode active, and it added in some nice warmth.

I really don't get it. If you really want warmth, just open your project on your PC and you can make use of all the warming plugins you want if you don't want to warm it with hardware.

https://www.elektron.se/us/analog-heat-mkii-explorer

Nothing creates “warmth” like dedicated hardware.
No laptop, PLUG-IN or MPC is ever gonna replace your favorite mixer, mic preamp, analog synth filter, Tascam tape recorder etc.

I just suggested BLACK LION b/c it will integrate into your MPC & not take up any new space in your rig but no1 seems to be able to vouch for it, so I’m gonna give that a hard pass

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/analogue-warmth
https://www.musicradar.com/news/analogu ... tage-sound

B-Wise wrote:How are your tracking Akai product sells in order to factually say what selling like hotcakes?

SE is is holding #2 position in samplers sales rank rank since it became available in Thomann store. Its also the most expensive one. Not too shabby. https://www.thomann.de/intl/cat_rank.ht ... &gk=TASYSA