Akai Force and Midi Regions/Clips in Arranger View

I was thinking about getting a Force for the arranger so I can arrange a whole song without relying on my DAW. Does the arranger on Force let you create midi regions/clips and drag, drop, copy and paste those regions or is midi treated like it is in the MPC software where it's just a long track of midi notes and if you want to repeat a section you have to drag over all the midi notes in e.g. bar 1-4 and copy them and then paste them at another location?

So basically, I'm pretty sure I can arrange audio bits as clips/blocks but can I do the same with midi?

Thanks,

No clips/regions/blocks, only plain MIDI events. The "arranger" is a misnomer, you can't really use it for arranging in the way you expect. A track in the arranger is one big clip.

The arranger offers a way to record your launch clip performance and then fine-tune it by editing individual events and automation. And it offers some kind of a song-length linear timeline where you can place events. Currently the timeline cannot even be very long, the view starts to go crazy and do weird things.

Linear Performance Recorder would be a more accurate name for the arranger.

Ugh.

When you say "the timeline cannot be very long"... how long is too long? Can you do a 6 minute song?

If I answer that, you might get the idea that it works logically and consistently within some perceivable and understandable rules and limits, which I understand. It doesn't and I don't. Maximum zoom-out 0% zoom seems to be around 120 bars. The "show all" zoom button seems to max out already at 32 bars. When the zoom is maxed out, you can still scroll by dragging the screen. Locating to points a long way from each other requires setting locators. I haven't found a way to tap-to-locate. Q-link playhead scrolling is painfully slow. Basic navigation gets clunky, and doing basic arranging operations are too painful to make any sense, I'm not interested in trying to find out what is "possible" in some meaning.

You can try it yourself. Buy it from a store where you can return the device if it doesn't work for you.

If some forum member or youtuber is using the arrangement for long projects, I hope you can get in touch with them, to find out how exactly they're using it. Or ask an Akai rep, it should be their job to make you want to buy it.

Okay, thanks. The scrolling sounds very similar to what is in the MPC itself, it's a bit of a pain but not something I can't deal with. Thanks.

The timeline can be very long.

Just as a test, I set my arrangement to 999 bars and it works just fine.

I would say it averages around 90 to 140 bars here. Never had a single problem using the arranger.

I'll add that a 6 minute song, or even a 10 minute song, or half an hour song, is quite feasible. You can, given your setup being right for it, do a whole set in a single arrangement, no problem.

Espen Kraft couldn't do a whole set.

Anyway. It might be a good idea to prepare the tracks in Ableton and export/import the whole thing to Force for playback.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:Espen Kraft couldn't do a whole set.

I don't know if that's a joke by using him of all people. The dude was determined not to use all the other functions of the Force like it's sampler & drum programs. He only wanted to use the arranger. Wow, OK buddy. On one of his Force videos you can read the exchange we had.

Chiming in on this: I fully agree. Espen Kraft shackled himself. If I were to use the Force for a full live set, I'd combine it with something like my KORG Krome as a sound source, as well as maybe something like an analogue synth or three that I could drive by MIDI or CV/Gate. I might even use a Kross and a Krome next to each other, driving each by MIDI, and flipping each one's sound sources between tracks so that they really differentiate their sounds between tracks. Given that you can drive them both simultaneously, including MIDI automation, if you're not using the Force's MIDI power to your own advantage you're just tying one hand behind your back.

It was sort of sad:
"It's hard to row this canoe with only one hand!"
"Well, yeah. We knew."

The Espen Kraft video was a total disgrace and shame to all parties involved. This thing does a million different things, and out of all that you only look at the clunky arrangement, where you can't really arrange or do just about anything you might think, if you assume it's something like Ableton's arrangement view. It's a recorder where you can record your launch clip performance, fine-tune details and add automation. Or if you want to have a longish linear timeline in addition to launch clips, you can place a wav or MIDI clip there, but don't make it too long.

I don't believe the 999 bars thing. Video or didn't happed. For everyone else the view starts to act weird above 120-130 bars length.

An external MTC transport control/seeking device could help in navigating a long arrangement.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:The Espen Kraft video was a total disgrace and shame to all parties involved. This thing does a million different things, and out of all that you only look at the clunky arrangement, where you can't really arrange or do just about anything you might think, if you assume it's something like Ableton's arrangement view. It's a recorder where you can record your launch clip performance, fine-tune details and add automation. Or if you want to have a longish linear timeline in addition to launch clips, you can place a wav or MIDI clip there, but don't make it too long.

I don't believe the 999 bars thing. Video or didn't happed. For everyone else the view starts to act weird above 120-130 bars length.

An external MTC transport control/seeking device could help in navigating a long arrangement.

OK so you were joking I love dry humor but it can be difficult to detect it thru text. I like to use this or whatever when I'm being an ass.

Anyway, I totally agree with the rest of your post. Better sequencer/arrangement navigation tools would be helpful & there's no excuse for the current 6 timeline markers limit.
Especially when the arranger can go up to 999 bars! - What in the holy hell is that all about? That's plain evil & sadistic

The six locators limit is well in line with the general idea of "one reasonably short song".

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:The six locators limit is well in line with the general idea of "one reasonably short song".

But my music isn't reasonable nor short
Damn you Akai!