Creating Ambient Loops - Set Master Sequence length

Looking for some help creating an ambient track on the Akai Force.
I'm following the YouTube video below which is for an MPC One and I'm trying to adapt the process to the Force so I have a few questions.

How do you set the Master Sequence Length to 840 measure @ 3:08?
How do you set the Track 1 length to 16 measures or 4 beats @ 3:38?
How do I then set Tracks 2-4 to 20, 24, 28 respectively?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAGu94X0Rk?si=e633FYQkvk-_-W29[/youtube]
Creating Ambient Loops

The arranger is the "master sequence" in Force. Go to the arranger and set the arrangement length. See the manual for details.

But it may be that you don't have to do everything exactly the same as on an MPC. IIRC, it used to be so that the Force's launch clip (= MPC track) playheads were reset when the arrangement (= MPC "master" sequence) playhead wrapped/looped around, but I think this was fixed at some point, and in the current Force software, launch clips can play freely without resetting. I have to check if that's the case.

What I'm saying is, you should understand WHY it's necessary to set the MPC track and sequence lengths like they do the on the video. And then figure out if this is necessary on your Force or not. I didn't watch the video. (You might want to read the instructions this forum shows you about using the youtube link tag)

IIRC on the MPC, sequence wrap-around resets tracks, and there's no way to stop that from happening. The only way to have a sequence wrap without a hickup in at least some of the tracks is to use a sequence length that's divisible by all track lengths, and that's why you have to do these length tricks. If there was no resetting, you could set the track lengths freely. The track/sequence length thing could be simply a way to work around an annoying MPC limitation/feature that the Force doesn't suffer from anymore.

I checked it, and the arranger loop does not reset clips. And maybe it never did. What does reset is the arpeggiator, and that one hasn't been fixed.

One more weird thing about arrangement length: it sets the maximum length for the clip automation pencil tool. If your arrangement is 2 bars long, and you have a clip of 10 bars, you can't draw automation curves to bars 3-10 of the clip. But you can record and play notes there. And if you first draw the automation and then shorten the arrangement, the automation curves stay there, you just won't be able to edit it with the pencil tool.

Ok, I checked the video. It was what I expected. He's using repeating note loops of different lengths, which create permutations which sound like evolving rhythms and melodies. The 840 bar sequence length is a workaround that's needed because of MPC.

On the Force, you'll want to use one plugin track and multiple MIDI tracks sending notes to the same plugin. This is needed because the Force doesn't let you have "programs" separately from tracks like on the MPC. And the idea on the video is to have the tracks play the same sound, and you probably don't want to have a separate Hype instance for each repeating component. And this allows you to have an independent automation layer for manipulating the sounds, which has its own separate loop length. And you can have more effect automation loop layers if you route the plugin through a submix.

The Force is actually better suited for this kind of technique IMO.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:Ok, I checked the video. It was what I expected. He's using repeating note loops of different lengths, which create permutations which sound like evolving rhythms and melodies. The 840 bar sequence length is a workaround that's needed because of MPC.

On the Force, you'll want to use one plugin track and multiple MIDI tracks sending notes to the same plugin. This is needed because the Force doesn't let you have "programs" separately from tracks like on the MPC. And the idea on the video is to have the tracks play the same sound, and you probably don't want to have a separate Hype instance for each repeating component. And this allows you to have an independent automation layer for manipulating the sounds, which has its own separate loop length. And you can have more effect automation loop layers if you route the plugin through a submix.

The Force is actually better suited for this kind of technique IMO.

Thanks for walking me through this. I appreciate you! Okay, taking your advice here’s what I’ve done. Hopefully I’m interpreting your instructions well.

Project
Project tempo: 60 bpm
Scale/Key: D minor
Quantization: 2 bars (but I believe it should be changed to 1/8th as per the video.)

Tracks
I set up Track 1 as a plug-in track with four midi clips using the Hype synth with the Bells —> FM Bowl preset.

Drum Tracks
I've setup 2 drum tracks as specified in the video but I haven’t done anything with them yet. I’m still at step 1.

Midi Clips
I setup 4 midi clips to a length of 16, 20, 24 & 28 measures respectively.

Questions:
1. Do I need to change the individual midi clips to legato?
2. Do I still need to set the project master sequence length to 840 measures in the Arranger as specified above? Or does changing the midi clip length make that unnecessary? I think you answered my question in the reply above but I’m still a little confused.

I just realized I interpreted your midi track instructions wrong. Instead of midi clips, I should have setup 4 midi tracks all setup to use 1 plugin. I setup 1 plugin track and 4 midi clips.

Does all that sound correct?

Here are some screenshots of my Ambient Project setup…hopefully they can add context to my explanation above.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e1MfND85oNWxmcXWCmQOB6sQ

On each track, only one clip can play at any one time.

You need 5 tracks:

- 1 Plugin track with the sound-generating plugin
- 4 x MIDI tracks, all set to SEND to the plugin track

User manual: https://cdn.inmusicbrands.com/akai/Force/uywetrfg_321/Force%20-%20User%20Guide%20-%20v3.2.1.zip

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:On each track, only one clip can play at any one time.

You need 5 tracks:

- 1 Plugin track with the sound-generating plugin
- 4 x MIDI tracks, all set to SEND to the plugin track

User manual: https://cdn.inmusicbrands.com/akai/Force/uywetrfg_321/Force%20-%20User%20Guide%20-%20v3.2.1.zip

Okay, yeah, I realized this when I reviewed my reply. I’ll try this when I get home.

I was able to get something useable to my liking. I was placing notes into the step sequencer and couldn't figure out how to place notes past 4 bars even though the midi track lengths were set to 20,24,26,28 respectively.

To get around that on each midi track I went into grid edit and selected random events, and humanize which placed notes randomly and filled out the entire midi track length. I'll have to read the manual more to find the proper way to do it from the step sequencer or playing them in live.

hionhifi wrote:I couldn't figure out how to place notes past 32 steps from the step sequencer even though the length of the midi track were set to 20,24,26,28 respectively.

Turns out I needed access the other 32 steps by pressing and holding step sequencer then selecting the pad with the next group of 32 steps.

I’m actually glad I made this error though because now I know how to fill out a midi clip with random notes within a key for x # of steps. This is useful for ambient music where you can use randomize to fill out the notes in the midi clip then apply probability to it thus making for an interesting pattern using varying pattern lengths.

If you route the MIDI notes via an external loopback cable, the MIDI tracks playing into the Force's MIDI output, and the sound-generating plugin or whatever track set to the Force's MIDI input, then you have an extra set of tools to play around with, because then you can use features that are only available for external MIDI inputs like MIDI Input Snap to Scale and the Arpeggiator.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:If you route the MIDI notes via an external loopback cable, the MIDI tracks playing into the Force's MIDI output, and the sound-generating plugin or whatever track set to the Force's MIDI input, then you have an extra set of tools to play around with, because then you can use features that are only available for external MIDI inputs like MIDI Input Snap to Scale and the Arpeggiator.

I didn’t know this. Okay, setting it up seems easy enough: run a midi cable from the Force midi out to it’s midi in.

I finally got the track done using your help. Thanks HouseWithoutMouse.

With the intro done now I can start building on the other parts using some your techniques, mentioned earlier in the thread.

Did you already try adding automation on the plugin track, and routing it via a submix where you can add more automation? These allow two more layers of evolving sound, because you can have each automation loop clip a different length than the others. And you can add a third layer in the master bus. And in the sends! And if you route stuff via external audio outs 3-4 back to inputs 1-2, you can have even more layers of evolving effects. Route that audio through an external automatable effect, with CV or MIDI control? I don't know if it's even possible to utilize everything in a meaningful way.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:Did you already try adding automation on the plugin track, and routing it via a submix where you can add more automation? These allow two more layers of evolving sound, because you can have each automation loop clip a different length than the others. And you can add a third layer in the master bus. And in the sends! And if you route stuff via external audio outs 3-4 back to inputs 1-2, you can have even more layers of evolving effects. Route that audio through an external automatable effect, with CV or MIDI control? I don't know if it's even possible to utilize everything in a meaningful way.

Not yet. I’m not quite sure how to do on the Force yet because I’m at work. Once I’m free I can read the manual on how to add automation on the plugin track, and route it via a submix where more modulation can added.