V-Drums midi into Force?

OK so in less than a week I'm doing far better than I'd expected in getting Force to do Everything I've Ever wanted. Noticed these drum kits in an MPC Sample email this morning and went "Hell Yeah!"
I currently have a template saved for my Trio practice sessions, with Bass and guitar both plugged in ready to go and am very impressed with the results, all amp modelling effects etc. To be able to plug V-Drums straight into Force would be a dream come true. It would make a great small footprint, direct to PA type set-up.
If anyone has succeeded in doing this I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise I'll just have to be the 'crash test dummy'. Looked on Google but find very little information on it.
Cheers Steve.

I have not, but it should be very easy.

Obviously, set the MIDI channel appropriately in the I/O section of the mixer, blahblahblah, and then the biggest trick might be checking the note settings on the MIDI. I don't know how much flexibility the V-drums offer you on that front, but you should be able to hit a pad/note on the V-drums, and then load a sample into the appropriate note on the Force. Set up your own kit that way, tuned just how you like it.

Granted, a little painstaking, but you only have to do it once per song.

I think I responded to you on YouTube, yes it works fine, the v drums are a midi controller so just hook up with a midi cable (perhaps even usb these days) You’ll need to match your kits midi mapping with the v drum, e.g kick is note 36, closed hat is 42 etc

MPC-Tutor wrote:I think I responded to you on YouTube, yes it works fine, the v drums are a midi controller so just hook up with a midi cable (perhaps even usb these days) You’ll need to match your kits midi mapping with the v drum, e.g kick is note 36, closed hat is 42 etc

Yes I saw that and thank you. Also found a Youtube video by FreeBeats, who is actually a drummer, which was very helpful.
I had much the same initial result as he did on first trying it. I was also surprised at how easily MPC found the V-Drums. Only a couple of drums mapped correctly though.
Is it safe to remap the settings on Force or MPC rather than on the V-Drums?
I am aware the settings are saved in 'Project' or 'Template'.
Reason I ask is that I also use the V-Drums with NI Kontakt.
If I have to change the V-Drums settings I can only hope I can change the settings in Kontakt to match.
Holding back a bit atm as I'm wary of stuffing things up.
Also, where can I find a listing of the appropriate note numbers for the pads on MPC and Force, and are they, as I assume, the same on both?
I've tried searching for them in the manual but can't find them. Probably because I'm not searching for them by their correct name.
When it comes to changing the note numbers on the V-Drums I have the manual which has pretty clear instruction. There seems to be no way to save a midi mapping though and I don't want to have to repeat every time I swap between Force and Kontakt.

Quick update. Probably not the best way to do it, but with the V-Drums plugged into MPC Live, I wrote down the pad numbers lighting up as I hit each drum then made a quick Drum Kit with samples assigned to the appropriate pads. It worked like a charm.
In case it helps anyone else the pads are: (V-Drums being TD-4)
Kick=1,Snare =3,OH=8,CH=7,Ride=16,Crash=5,Tom H,M,Low=13,10,6,Snare rim=2.
Weird mapping.
There may well be others for crash and ride rim and bell but I have not bothered with them yet. There are 4 pads left empty.
My goals is to get something that works in the short term.

Doing it this way would mean doing it for every Kit.
It's one of the main reasons I would not part with the Live2 though. I can sit in a comfy chair and program then simply plug in the V-Drums.
Next step is transfer saved kit to Force and plug it into mixer/monitors and annoy the neighbours.
Then I just need to set up something that will work with Drum Kits in standard form, as they come. Be it reprogramming the V-Drums or Pad mapping on MPC/Force.
I'm guessing reprogramming the V-Drums is the safest option and besides, with some good multisample drums in Force I probably won't be bothered with Kontakt again. That was after all the main reason for buying Force. To replace an 11 year old MBP.
I am really hanging out to try some good multi sampled drums though.

Update2:
Seems there are a couple of cymbals mapped differently between MPC and Force, at least as far as V-Drums are concerned.
Crash is pad5 on MPC and pad14 on Force
OH is pad8 on MPC and pad11 on Force
CH stays the same but is effected by choke group.
It's obviously in the midi routing and not the pads themselves as the samples are still on the same pads on the Force as they are on the MPC.
They are just triggered by different midi note numbers.
I'll continue menu diving in the Force Manual but not sure where to look. Or what to look for in search.

The MIDI note mapping is stored in the program file itself (XPM), not the machine. The midi note mapping of a saved program it will be identical in the MPC and the Force, it will not be changed in any way simply by loading it in one machine or the other.

I'll post a link to that article again as it explains things in more detail:

https://www.mpc-tutor.com/re-mapping-mi ... drum-kits/

Since MPC 2.11 (Force 3.1?), a new blank DRUM program will possess what Akai call a 'chromatic C1' midi mapping. So pad A1 is note 36, pad A2 is note 37, A3 = 38 and so on. But before 2.11, new kits would by default possess a 'classic mpc' mapping which is the mapping used on legacy MPCs (and which makes no sense, it's all over the place). This is an issue because you'll find that the kits in your factory libraries will be one or the other; the Force library is all 'classic mpc', the Live 2 might be a mix. Plus commercial libraries could be one or the other (mine are all chromatic C1 and always have been).

The kit you describe in your post seems to fit the chromatic C1 mapping, as your snare is on pad 3 (note 38, which is standard GM note for a snare), closed hat on A7 (note 42).

So if you are building a kit from scratch in your MPC Live 2, it will, by default, have this chromatic C1 underlying note mapping. Just make sure you assign your samples in the same order each time and all your kits will map correctly with your vDrums with no messing around with underlying MIDI note assignments. i.e.

A01 = Kick (36)
A02 = Rim (37)
A03 = Snare (38)
etc.

If you have a third party kit, check the underlying mapping in your MPC Live 2:

MAIN > program row pencil > edit note map

Here you can configure either a custom mapping, or just use one of the default templates. Word of advice, always use the drop down note selections when making a custom mapping. Scrolling through the note lists causes issues with the MPC continually adjusting your existing assignments to avoid having the same note assigned to two pads (which is not allowed).

This screen is not available in the Force, so set up your kits in the MPC Live 2. Or use the MPC Software/MPC Beats (Edit > program > note mapping).

If you prefer a different physical pad layout (for example, perhaps you want your kick, snare, closed hat, open hat on the same row, such as A01-A04 respectively) then this will help:

https://www.mpc-tutor.com/mpc-workflow- ... ming-kits/

Often it's just simpler to start with a blank program and just re-assign the samples from scratch to your preferred pads.

IF you want to work with a bespoke MIDI mapping, I would suggest you set up a blank program file with that mapping pre-configured and save it as your go-to program template (just save it to a folder on your disk). You could also set up a project template witht his bespoke drum program as the initially loaded program file.

If you are working with an existing third party kit then you may have to change both the pad order and the underlying mapping. Or again, just re-assign the samples to a separate blank program in whatever order your prefer.

It's also possible to edit the midi mapping directly ni the XPM file itself. Open the XPM in a text editor and look for the PadNoteMap tag, towards the end of the file:



Change and re-save.This is the perhaps the easiest way if you want to add a bespoke mapping to lots of kits as you can just paste and replace that entire text block with your preferred mapping.

WOW!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to explain all this in so much depth.
Of course a lot of it is going way over my head, but then again I think after reading through many times over several days I may yet get my head around it.
Two things, the first being I have never opened a file of any type in a text editor and secondly, as far as I'm aware, what I did was to open a blank drum kit in a empty project and used browse to load a selection of kicks, snares etc. I then loaded them into the kit and saved both the program and the project.
Plugged the V-Drums in and after correcting one sample I'd misplaced, it worked perfectly.
It sort of threw me a curve ball when a couple of the cymbals were not firing in the Force.
Also, although the rest were firing correctly the volume was way down. I assume here that was something to do with the way the midi velocity is read.
I will definitely look into what you recommend re editing in notepad or wherever. Also trying to work from the MPC software. I do want to get into a lot of key groups from Komplete.
Given that my main desire is simply to use the V-Drums to trigger a good multi sampled kit within Force, is my most realistic option to just edit the midi note sends on the V-Drums to match Force and call it quits at that?
If so, I'll try that with some basic drum kits within Force before buying new ones if it works.
Thank you again for going to such pains to explain what is obviously a far more complicated endeavour than I first imagined.

Stevejaz wrote:Given that my main desire is simply to use the V-Drums to trigger a good multi sampled kit within Force, is my most realistic option to just edit the midi note sends on the V-Drums to match Force and call it quits at that?
.

If you are building all the force kits yourself then I don't think it matters which way round you do it as you could just build your kits to suit the vdrums mapping (which is general midi drum mapping), but yes, you could change the vdrums to suit a default chromatic C1 mapping in the Force.

As I said, if using third party kits you'll discover a variety of different MIDI mappings and pad layouts, there is no standard, so you'll not be able to automagically have the vDrums map nicely to those, there will be a requirement to make changes, and perhaps in the long run it's better to just create a set of GM versions of all your MPC/force drum kits that will work with your default Vdrum (GM) settings, and have the same preferred sample-pad layout (which might not even matter if you don't intend finger drumming with the pads)

If I was going to do this I would go for the text editor option (or write a script to do it all for me) as it's literally just replacing that existing <padNoteMap> block of code with the 'GM layout' version.

Also be aware that v-Drums use MIDI CC to control hi hat opening, not sure if this is the case with all vDrum brains though, and CC control is not something you can configure on an MPC/Force drum kit. You can just have a dedicated open hat (46) which can be muted by the closed hat pad(s) (e.g. 42, 44 etc).

Probably sounds more complicated than it actually is, because really if you just build all your kits from scratch it's not that complicated as long as you use a pre-built blank GM template and assign your samples to the same pad layout each time. So:

1) Decide a preferred pad layout (i.e. kick on A1, snare on A2 etc)
2) Open a blank DRUM program, use Edit Note Map to assign the GM / vDrums MIDI notes to each pad (e.g. A1 Kick = 36, A2 Snare = 38...). Configure other pad params that you night need (e.g. hi hat mutes, polyphony settings, pad colors etc)
3) Save to a folder on your disk as 'Blank GM Kit'
4) Optionally save entire project with this kit assigned to seq 1 track 1, save it as a template and configure this as the default template in Preferences
5) Each time you make a new kit, fire up the 'Blank GM Kit', assign your samples and tweak as required, re-save with a new name to a folder called 'V-Drum Kits'

60 odd years ago when I was a young kid struggling with my pawn shop guitar from hell, high tech was an old 4" reel to reel tape recorder with the mic placed in front of a valve bedside radio, taping songs off the 'Hit Parade' then trying to figure them out, so excuse my wry smile when I hear "It's not that complicated". LOL. I'm sure it's not but then neither am I.
In the first place thank you for this web site, forum etc.
I mean that genuinely and sincerely. It is an absolute Godsend to someone such as myself. I started this post after seeing one of your products on Youtube but in respect of the time you have taken to explain things I feel a moral obligation to buy the bundle. Been looking through the demos of the various kits and man, other than some mad skills finger drumming, there are many kits that would make it worth my while in the long term anyway.
My finger drumming is basic at best, though I can come up with a few useful bars then do the old double and add a variation midi sequencing trick.
I bought the V-Drums years back on the advice that "If you want to improve your groove on the guitar, learn to play the drums". I am a solo performer, guitar/vocals, who travels 6 months a year but is lucky enough to have a Bass/Drummer rhythm section at home.
My 'Live2' is used mainly on the road while my Force is more for home studio use, with the rhythm section. I use a TC Helicon VL3x so can run a mono out into one audio channel on the Force, leaving the other for Bass and V-Drums into midi in, along with an s88 keyboard via USB for piano, synths etc.
Two advantages of this set up are that I can supply the Bass player and Dummer with home practice tracks (sans their parts) and that I can save their parts as backing tracks on the VL3x.
I'm not saying here that I'm not going to delve into all this programming stuff. I would actually be quite keen to and it's exactly the sort of thing my 70 year old brain needs. It will just take a bit of time, but then again it's the sort of thing I can occupy myself with when travelling.
ATM I am most keen on making the best use of my available time with Drummer and Bass player so yeah. I think it's set the V-Drums to play nicely with the Force and buy the whole bundle.
Thank you so very much for taking the time to explain things and give me all the links. I truely appreciate it, as I do this Forum.

So I dived in the deep end and bought the whole package. Looked at reprogramming the V-Drums to suit Force but figured the Drum kits in Fore, or MPC for that matter, are not worth it. I mean most are only 1/2 drums and 1/2 other samples. Figured I'd wait till I get the sounds I actually want. Speaking of which there are things in all the kits that I like, but all up way more than I'm ever going to use. Nice to be spoiled for choice though and given they will also work on MPC for finger drumming I might end up practicing that too.
I'll be quite content to leave the V-Drums set up, totally dedicated to use with the Force (at least via midi).
Don't think I'll have any issues reprogramming the V-Drums to suit the Force. If I do I'll repost.
Thanks everyone for your help.