Host Fantom-6 with MPC Keys 61

Hey all, first time poster here - so, after a lot of consideration, I decided to purchase a Roland Fantom-6 and EX upgrade rather than a bunch of boxes. Assuming I’m not so disappointed I return the thing, which I doubt, the core of my setup will be the MPC keys 61 and Fantom-6 on a dual keyboard stand.

So I’m looking for advice on how to sync these together. I also have an Aira MX-1 mixer - as of now am using it as an audio interface so am not using EXT mode with the MPC hosting it - though might be persuaded to change that - or do so occasionally for multitrack output from either device.

My current thoughts: While at times I may choose to use the Fantom’s onboard sequencer (or record to its sequencer from the MPC Keys 61) - I’m hoping I like the TR style sequencer in particular - and merely sync the start stop and tempo with both devices outputting to my mixer from their own internal sequences and my live playing; however, it’s my understanding the Fantom’s sequencer leaves a bit to be desired comparatively, and what I’m thinking I’d like to do is host the Fantom on the MPC via USB, and then sequence it from my MPC using midi tracks to send note data over USB. That way I’ve got the best of both worlds - the Roland’s sounds (really looking forward to the ACB Jupiter 8 emulation, N/Zyme, and the Zen-core models and variety available there, as well as the supernatural sounds) as well as the MPC’s sampling capabilities and plugins and the MPC’s workflow and sequencing capabilities. Then either run the Roland into the MX-1 in EXT mode being run from the MPC to record audio, and the Fantom directly in through audio - or just both as stereo audio into the MX-1. In this configuration I assume if I prefer the Roland’s keybed at times, I should be able to also use it as a midi source via USB and record into the MPC’s sequencer, as well right? Final question - if I get sustain and expression pedals and all that - am I best off if I’m mostly controlling the Roland from the MPC just using a single set of pedals on the MPc Keys? Or long term will I probably want a few pedals for the Roland as well?

Final question - I don’t use the effects or filters much on the MX-1; it sadly only has 3 stereo ins for i/o despite being 16 channel. Anybody have experience using the Tascam digital mixers with the Keys (or Fantom for that matter)? Despite trying to fit as much of my sound generation into two boxes as possible, my studio setup at least will likely expand. I have a DJ mixer to condense 4 devices into one of the stereo ins, but that’s less than ideal.

Is that the best way to run this? Would especially like to hear from anybody running both Fantom-6/7/8 and an MPC together - particularly the keys.

Got an mpc x and fantom 6. Didn't upgraded to ex yet since I already bought n/zyme months ago and don't want to rebuy it. I personally set my fantom as slave so I can't use his sequencer but it's not a pb for me. I hook midi cables to my mpc x and connect all my audio routing with my behringer x32 board to ear sound and to route for sampling and record from the mpc. Then connect my USB to my computer. When I finish all my arrangement in mpc I export the mpc programs (drums and mpc plugins) and record fantom tracks syncing with my daw

Appreciate it, and that makes sense. Just iut of curiosity do you find saving/exporting the extra stuff outside of the project worthwhile generally?

Just as a note - Roland offers a discount to those who bought N/Zyme before - I think it’s $100 - so you still eat $50 comparatively, but it’s a chunk of the difference. I do know you can only run one instance of the ACB Jupiter, and it uses the V-Piano slot/chip, which is kind of a bummer (you can run 15 more Zen Core Jupiter model instances and though), I’m also really looking forward to the JD-800 model (hoping it doesn’t have the same restriction as the ACB Jupiter).

I usually save two projects, one on mpc obviously and a scene on the fantom corresponding to the project. I don't like how the saving preset is set in fantom (got to save a new instruments when you tweak one) so I try to use the link midi program to tweak as far as possible my sound away from the fantom. But for certain tweaks you have to.

Yeah, that makes sense. Prior to my MPC and Akai being able to USB midi host as easily, I kept scenes in my Yamaha MX-49 to play from my recorded midi for a chunk of my sounds. From a space standpoint, and the amount of sounds available on the keys I haven’t bothered with the MX-49, and instead only single voice hardware synths.

Technically, the stock sounds on the fantom all have MSB, LSB, and Program numbers, so ostensibly, with an init scene if only using the stock sounds, you could drive everything from the keys - at least that can be controlled via cc. Again with the limitation being what’s controllable via cc and the stock sounds that are numbered. Maybe your saved sounds, cloud sounds, and model expansions and so forth have numbers somewhere - something I’ll find out I suppose. The other thing is with anything I don’t anticipate needing to change the actual notes, tempo, etc. of, I can at least when hosting my mixer o er USB record audio going into the inputs of that. Not really sure if the inputs on the MPC are good enough just to run a line directly from the Fantom. Also unsure if the monitoring would be good enough, but presumably I could monitor the fantom through the MPC. For anything I want my friend to work on with his live ii and electronic drum kit, I’ll have to record audio, at least if I want him to be able to work on the full multitrack.

Still, running everything from the MPC probably does reduce the capabilities I’ll have access to even if I can find the non-stock sounds for program changes. I know one thing I’ll do when I start a track is just lay down some sort of drums to start - when I don’t want to audition through preset kits to try to find something in the ballpark that isn’t half melodic/harmonic samples, I’ll just use drum synth on the MPC and lay down a quick beat with the pads and/or step sequencer. I’m expecting the drum sounds for the Fantom will be significantly better than drum synth, and the TR style sequencer easy enough to work with. I’m hopeful I’ll find that there isn’t significant latency or jumps when sending tempo/transport controls to the Fantom - if not, I might be at least starting my track with drums from the fantom, and sometimes those starter drums end up in a final song, perhaps with some tweaking, effects, or mastering. I also could find for stuff that doesn’t need the full extent of the MPC’s control for sequencing that I prefer recording melodic/harmonic sequences on the roland in some cases - though I’m imagining even in those cases I probably record the midi back to the MPC unless there’s tweaks that can’t be done with ccs.

I'd love to use lsb and msb but when I set a midi track with those values, it mute the first note when I press play. I don't like this at all

idk973 wrote:I'd love to use lsb and msb but when I set a midi track with those values, it mute the first note when I press play. I don't like this at all

Yeah, if I figure that one out, then, I’ll let you know - just got it today, but need the code foe EX still, so should get that the tomorrow. Just off the top of my head, and if you do things in tracks by starting and stopping, then it wouldn’t work, but could you create a sequence that’s just used to set your MSB and LSB (if the first note is silent, but necessary, at least it won’t make a sound), then move into your real first sequence with that stuff all set? Aside from Vpiano and the ACB expansions being restricted, 16 sounds from a second instrument seems sufficient enough not to do a lot of switching - though, you could also, if the first note is necessary but also silent, set those in a prior sequence, at least creatively. If they don’t require the first note - then your set so long as you plan out what you are dropping or bringing in. If they do, hopefully it’s always silent - if not, then of course the whole plan goes to shit if it both required and not always silent.

idk973 wrote:I'd love to use lsb and msb but when I set a midi track with those values, it mute the first note when I press play. I don't like this at all

So haven’t gotten to where I’m trying to program an init scene with the MPC Keys, but one thing I’m struggling with - a lot of the model sounds, and to a lesser extent various other sounds sound really great on their own, however, they aren’t mixing together very well (actually while I’ve run into this to a lesser extent with samples/keygroups from expansions on the keys, that’s something you’ve really got to credit Akai for handling well. All the various plugins mix together well, and generally speaking so do samples with little adjustment).

I’ve run into this before with other multitimbral devices, and maybe it’s the whole scene/zone setup that I just haven’t sorted where I can adjust the sounds to mix together better/remove effects Roland’s applying by default that maybe would even be nice playing a solo sound. I’ve figured out I need to lower the reverb from its default of 40 then dial it in if it makes sense. I also believe I’m disengaging MFX on individual tones to see if that’s where I’m getting the poor mixability from, and my milage has varied there, at best. My old MX-49 I think just had a button for disengaging default effects which was really nice. I see there’s an effects depth knob - and I’ve turned that down all the way, but think that’s just for the pads maybe, but if not, it’s not doing the trick. I guess I could try panning further, but I shouldn’t have to do too much with a preset drumkit, and don’t like to go particularly wide with sounds that are the core of a beat.

So I guess any advice you have there - I’m sure you’ve noticed this as a Fantom user, and there’s got to be a way around it or at least a place I can adjust whatever’s being applied to these sounds and I’m just missing it. Setting the EQ for the drum kit manually helped some, but still. Otherwise it wouldn’t be particularly workable as a full on workstation somebody could sit down at in a studio, set up a scene, and get to work, and more useful as an arranger keyboard with contemporary genre specific sound presets unless somebody’s a great mixer and expert on the device’s sound generation/signal path. Maybe that’s the point, eventually I’ll have to be and it will be rewarding 10 months from now or whatever, and helpful when using other Roland workstations. Is there maybe something in sound mode? My mastering software is some help in the studio, but when I’m working on a track, I do need it to gel together a bit better to have a surer idea of outcome, let alone if I ever want to use it live.

Got to try this bug, never noticed

Aphter-Glo wrote:

idk973 wrote:I'd love to use lsb and msb but when I set a midi track with those values, it mute the first note when I press play. I don't like this at all

So haven’t gotten to where I’m trying to program an init scene with the MPC Keys, but one thing I’m struggling with - a lot of the model sounds, and to a lesser extent various other sounds sound really great on their own, however, they aren’t mixing together very well (actually while I’ve run into this to a lesser extent with samples/keygroups from expansions on the keys, that’s something you’ve really got to credit Akai for handling well. All the various plugins mix together well, and generally speaking so do samples with little adjustment).

I’ve run into this before with other multitimbral devices, and maybe it’s the whole scene/zone setup that I just haven’t sorted where I can adjust the sounds to mix together better/remove effects Roland’s applying by default that maybe would even be nice playing a solo sound. I’ve figured out I need to lower the reverb from its default of 40 then dial it in if it makes sense. I also believe I’m disengaging MFX on individual tones to see if that’s where I’m getting the poor mixability from, and my milage has varied there, at best. My old MX-49 I think just had a button for disengaging default effects which was really nice. I see there’s an effects depth knob - and I’ve turned that down all the way, but think that’s just for the pads maybe, but if not, it’s not doing the trick. I guess I could try panning further, but I shouldn’t have to do too much with a preset drumkit, and don’t like to go particularly wide with sounds that are the core of a beat.

So I guess any advice you have there - I’m sure you’ve noticed this as a Fantom user, and there’s got to be a way around it or at least a place I can adjust whatever’s being applied to these sounds and I’m just missing it. Setting the EQ for the drum kit manually helped some, but still. Otherwise it wouldn’t be particularly workable as a full on workstation somebody could sit down at in a studio, set up a scene, and get to work, and more useful as an arranger keyboard with contemporary genre specific sound presets unless somebody’s a great mixer and expert on the device’s sound generation/signal path. Maybe that’s the point, eventually I’ll have to be and it will be rewarding 10 months from now or whatever, and helpful when using other Roland workstations. Is there maybe something in sound mode? My mastering software is some help in the studio, but when I’m working on a track, I do need it to gel together a bit better to have a surer idea of outcome, let alone if I ever want to use it live.

In mfx you can notice that the reverb is not wet at 100% by default, try to adjust this parameter or completely change the reverb model

idk973 wrote:I'd love to use lsb and msb but when I set a midi track with those values, it mute the first note when I press play. I don't like this at all

I've had this problem with my XV-5050 and been bangin my head trying to figure it out for weeks.

@Lampdog, can you confirm that this is the same bug? I wanna try and get on Akai's nerves about it.

idk973 wrote:I'd love to use lsb and msb but when I set a midi track with those values, it mute the first note when I press play. I don't like this at all

Did you try moving the first note back a little like 1 or 2 ticks on the seq, to let the MSB/LSB do it's thing?

B-Wise wrote:

idk973 wrote:I'd love to use lsb and msb but when I set a midi track with those values, it mute the first note when I press play. I don't like this at all

Did you try moving the first note back a little like 1 or 2 ticks on the seq, to let the MSB/LSB do it's thing?

Got to move way too far to hear my sound like this. It doesn't sound good. Got to use the scene thing on my fantom.

Found a major Con to use msb and lsb thing.
You can't tweak your sound. Since it's a preset sound number, anytime you mess with a parameter (ex: a cut off, an attack whatever) then if you press play on your mpc it reset the original parameters of the preset selected