Problems recording guitar

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Problems recording guitar

By Jcse7en Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:08 pm
Hi all

I've got few issues doing the above so please bear with me.

First issue.

I don't like the guitar plugins on the mpc, so I run my guitar through an audio interface (RME fireface 802) where my computer sound is also routed to, load up a neural DSP archetype (amp sim) and from the audio interface's output, route the guitars output into the left in of the mpc. I've got an mpc one plus.

Now the sound is nice going in but when I play back the recording it sounds muddy and slightly distorted and not like the sound that was coming out of my speakers. The guitar input level is set to 12 o clock as is the mpcs rec level and the input level, on the mpc, is metering at around -9db so with a good amount of head room, so all slightly confusing. Maybe a problem with my setup perhaps...

Second issue.

Playing back the recording. I use an audio track with the sequence set to 4 or 8 bars depending on what I'm playing. Now maybe it's my mediocre timing when playing (quite possible) but when playing back, when the recording gets to the end of the 4th or 8th bar there's an audible click when moving to the 1st bar. This has happened on every recording I've done so far. On some tracks it works as it gives it that sample vibe however on others when I need it to be a seamless transition to the 1st bar, it's annoying and I don't know how to get rid of it.

I've tried re-recording the parts, I play with the metronome but I still get the click on the transition. Really need your help here guys.

Apart from all the that, I've got to say that the mpc one/plus has reinvigorated my music making. Coming from Reaper and the daw workflow, the mpc has been a breath of fresh air and I've written more songs in a month of having it than I have done in the last 3 years, no exaggeration.

Anyway thanks for the help.

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Elijah Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:46 am
Jcse7en wrote:Second issue.


In the audio editing tool of the audio track, select wav with the arrow tool and set the fade-in/out to about 10.
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Re: Problems recording guitar

By Telefunky Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:24 pm
Jcse7en wrote:Now the sound is nice going in but when I play back the recording it sounds muddy and slightly distorted and not like the sound that was coming out of my speakers. The guitar input level is set to 12 o clock as is the mpcs rec level and the input level, on the mpc, is metering at around -9db so with a good amount of head room, so all slightly confusing. Maybe a problem with my setup perhaps...

Do you use balanced cable(s) aka TRS between the interface and the MPC ?
In most cases an unbalanced cable doesn‘t matter, but sometimes the short between ground and ring (that a fully plugged in TS cable causes) „overdrives“ the output stage.

You can verify this by plugging in the TS cable only half way, up to the 1st „click“, which avoids the short.
But a TRS cable would give you a better signal anyway, it‘s balanced (higher level) and carries less noise.

You also may check if the amp simulation actually produces a stereo image, or if it‘s a plain mono signal.
If it‘s not mono, and you only want a single channel on the MPC, do a summing of left & right on the DAW. Otherwise use 2 TRS cables.

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Jcse7en Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:39 pm
Telefunky wrote:
Jcse7en wrote:Now the sound is nice going in but when I play back the recording it sounds muddy and slightly distorted and not like the sound that was coming out of my speakers. The guitar input level is set to 12 o clock as is the mpcs rec level and the input level, on the mpc, is metering at around -9db so with a good amount of head room, so all slightly confusing. Maybe a problem with my setup perhaps...

Do you use balanced cable(s) aka TRS between the interface and the MPC ?
In most cases an unbalanced cable doesn‘t matter, but sometimes the short between ground and ring (that a fully plugged in TS cable causes) „overdrives“ the output stage.

You can verify this by plugging in the TS cable only half way, up to the 1st „click“, which avoids the short.
But a TRS cable would give you a better signal anyway, it‘s balanced (higher level) and carries less noise.

You also may check if the amp simulation actually produces a stereo image, or if it‘s a plain mono signal.
If it‘s not mono, and you only want a single channel on the MPC, do a summing of left & right on the DAW. Otherwise use 2 TRS cables.


Definitely using a TRS cable, I was hoping that might be the issue. Do you think plugging the guitar into DI box and then going di box to mpc might help? It's not the worst sound in the world, it's just not what's coming out of the plugin

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Jcse7en Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:42 pm
Elijah wrote:
Jcse7en wrote:Second issue.


In the audio editing tool of the audio track, select wav with the arrow tool and set the fade-in/out to about 10.


I tried this but it goes up in crements of 50...
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Re: Problems recording guitar

By Telefunky Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:51 pm
The Fireface 802 has 3 output settings...
Ausgangspegel bei 0 dBFS @ Hi Gain: +19 dBu
Ausgangspegel bei 0 dBFS @ +4 dBu: +13 dBu
Ausgangspegel bei 0 dBFS @ -10 dBV: +2 dBV

if you tried them all, then it‘s quite mysterious :hmmm: the MPC should track exactly the sound of the plugin, at least if routed accordingly.
The guitar has nothing to do with this. A software synth from your DAW would deliver similar differences, if it‘s an output issue.
(you mention the guitar sounds as expected on your DAW)
Unfortunately Akai isn‘t as generous as RME providing tech specs :Sigh:

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Delphinus Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:33 pm
It sounds like a routing issue to me. You're running your guitar through your audio interface/computer and then back into the MPC and then the output from the MPC back into the computer? That sounds like an audio feedback loop to me, but you're only monitoring the computer so it sounds right, but from the MPC it would be distorted. Maybe I'm wrong...I'm not familiar with this type of setup, but I do record guitar all of the time into my MPC.

I recommend getting a pre amp pedal like Headrush,Line 6, or any of the Universal Audio amp pedals and then go directly into the MPC, and then MPC to audio interface/computer. Works great.
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Re: Problems recording guitar

By Telefunky Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:45 pm
Delphinus wrote:It sounds like a routing issue to me. You're running your guitar through your audio interface/computer and then back into the MPC and then the output from the MPC back into the computer? That sounds like an audio feedback loop to me, but you're only monitoring the computer so it sounds right, but from the MPC it would be distorted.

In case the MPC is monitored by the RME Fireface it‘s only a feedback loop if the sum (containing the guitar signal) is routed to the MPC‘s input, because the MPC‘s output will also be part of the sum. (which of course is possible...)

But it‘s not a good idea to monitor both paths simultaneously because they will be offset by the interface latency. :idea:

Anyway... the proper way would be to set the interface (amp sim) output to a direct out (the Fireface has plenty of channels), though I‘d rather use a stereo pair, as mentioned above.
That direct out should not be monitored, if the MPC‘s monitor (via Fireface) is set to on. Otherwise you‘ll hear both signals with offset.
With the low latency of the Fireface the 2 signals may sound like 1, but with heavy interaction on the spectrum.

I agree that routing may indeed be an issue... there‘s a bunch of things that can go wrong.

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Elijah Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:22 am
Jcse7en wrote:
I tried this but it goes up in crements of 50...


Use the shift key + dial.

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Jcse7en Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:21 pm
Elijah wrote:
Jcse7en wrote:
I tried this but it goes up in crements of 50...


Use the shift key + dial.


This worked amazingly well, thank you

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Jcse7en Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:55 pm
Delphinus wrote:I recommend getting a pre amp pedal like Headrush,Line 6, or any of the Universal Audio amp pedals and then go directly into the MPC, and then MPC to audio interface/computer. Works great.


I hear you but I'm kind of loathe to do this as I sold all my pedals when I decided to go pedal-less. So to have to go back and buy a pedal/s when I've spent money on 3 neural dsp plugins is just...well...irritating lol I definitely see your point though.

Delphinus wrote:It sounds like a routing issue to me. You're running your guitar through your audio interface/computer and then back into the MPC and then the output from the MPC back into the computer? That sounds like an audio feedback loop to me, but you're only monitoring the computer so it sounds right, but from the MPC it would be distorted.


Telefunky wrote:I agree that routing may indeed be an issue... there‘s a bunch of things that can go wrong


I'm inclined to agree with you both here on the routing issue. Routing on the RME is quite involved.

Before I sell my guitar plugins and revert back to pedals :Sigh: I'd like to give this set up another try with both of your help if possible. I'm going to detail my setup in greater detail and maybe you'll be able to better see where the problem is.

Audio interface. Then I have speakers coming out of outputs 1 and 2. The audio Interface is also connected to my laptop.

The MPCs main left and right outputs, are going into into inputs 11 and 12 on the interface. Those inputs have been changed to instrument level.

My guitar is going into input 9 (set to instrument level) with the gain at 12 o clock.

The guitar output (standalone NDSP plugin) is coming out of outputs 1 and 2 (the speakers) and also output 3, which is connected to the MPC via a trs cable, into the MPCs left input.

On the audio track, the guitar is going in on input 1, metering at around -9db usually and I've got the monitoring set to auto.

I think that's everything, what do you think?

And big thanks to both of you, really
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Re: Problems recording guitar

By Lampdog Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:28 pm
Jcse7en wrote:
Elijah wrote:
Use the shift key + dial.


This worked amazingly well, thank you

The end of the audio and the beginning of the audio are wildly diff volumes.
If there is a sudden drop/gain in volume you get pops/clicks. You have to bring the 2 ends (end/start) closer to having the same volume which is what Elijah suggested.
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Re: Problems recording guitar

By Telefunky Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:48 pm
I'm going to detail my setup in greater detail ...
Audio interface. Then I have speakers coming out of outputs 1 and 2. The audio Interface is also connected to my laptop.

The MPCs main left and right outputs, are going into into inputs 11 and 12 on the interface. Those inputs have been changed to instrument level.

If possible re-arrange this so the MPC uses one of the line inputs 1-8.
Inputs 9-12 make the MPC output „see“ 800kOhm (aka nothing), instead of 12kOhm on lines 1-8. The exact sound is case dependent, but it‘s highly possible it will not be optimal.
(just try out on a temporary base)

The guitar output (standalone NDSP plugin) is coming out of outputs 1 and 2 (the speakers) and also output 3, which is connected to the MPC via a trs cable, into the MPCs left input.

That‘s ok... but again: it‘s highly probable that the NDSP produces a stereo signal, so the MPC should receive the output of the NDSP track as a stereo pair...
unless you intend to record the raw guitar signal (DI) via output 3 on the MPC. :hmmm:

Re: Problems recording guitar

By Jcse7en Fri Mar 01, 2024 9:58 am
Telefunky wrote:
That‘s ok... but again: it‘s highly probable that the NDSP produces a stereo signal, so the MPC should receive the output of the NDSP track as a stereo pair...
unless you intend to record the raw guitar signal (DI) via output 3 on the MPC. :hmmm:


You were right about this! The plugin was outputting in stereo and I was only getting the left hand side. I added another cable to output 4 and connected it to the right in of the mpc and now it sounds as it should.

I watched a Matthew Stratton Youtube video where he ran a guitar via DI box to the mpc. He connected the cable from the di box to the left in of the mpc. So I followed this setup but I should have realised that the plugin would work differently to a DI. Thanks for help though, much appreciated.
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