Does the MPC X SE sound just as good as the Black Lion mod?

offline wrote:

emdog wrote:The mfg knows your average person isn’t concerned with getting that extra 10-20% increase in audio quality (...)

Ok, This is very unclear to me, you said about some 10-20% percentage increase of audio quality, how did You measure that ?

I am just saying in general, not sure for this particular one. It is like anything, there are cost/quality trade offs made to get you a great product hopefully at a great price.

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:Expensive analogue parts replacements seems quaint when many digital options such as USB audio and SPDIF offer a complete noise-free chain cheaply.

My MPC One uses the Roland MX-1 as a fancy audio interface, where my Roland Aira gear goes too - and mix out goes through SPDIF to an old PC that records it... All of this second-hand - noise-free doesn't get any cheaper than that, bar a DAW or purely internal MPC rendering.

This is not completely noise free. no offense, but it seems like you aren't familiar with DA AD conversion if you think Roland mx-1 is a fancy interface.

Neodymium wrote:

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:Expensive analogue parts replacements seems quaint when many digital options such as USB audio and SPDIF offer a complete noise-free chain cheaply.

My MPC One uses the Roland MX-1 as a fancy audio interface, where my Roland Aira gear goes too - and mix out goes through SPDIF to an old PC that records it... All of this second-hand - noise-free doesn't get any cheaper than that, bar a DAW or purely internal MPC rendering.

And an ADAT interface connected to an MPC, connected to a ADAT interface on a computer will give you 8-16 channels

ADAT quality will still depend on the quality of your AD or DA converters depending on which way you are going.

Telefunky wrote:It‘s an arbitrary figure... essentially meaning manufacturing costs increase twice for whatever „improvement“ applied.
Real world (perceived) audio quality is a highly subjective domain.
To get a 10% „better“ sound, you‘d rather have to invest 90% more.
ps: great tech specs don‘t necessarily translate to a great tone...

Yes I am just giving rough examples, but typically to squeeze that last amount of quality out you have to spend a lot more money. If your target market is a consumer who wants a $500 device, then ya. Thats why it is good that akai allows external audio interfaces.

Yes you are correct, it doesnt necessarily translate to great tone, but it will translate to better specs. Now the question is whether the better specs translate to better perceived sound, or if the cost is worth the increase in sound, etc

MPC-Tutor wrote:I wasn’t aware that the SE has any improvements in the audio department. So any potential sonic differences may be down to mundane manufacturing changes, but likely completely subjective.
Don’t know about black lion stuff, I guess listen to the demos and if you think it sounds good, go for it, but I just don’t think the SE itself has anything over the x when it comes to sonics

i think i read somwhere, that they had to change converters due to manufacturing changes. there are interface brands like motu or arturia who had to do the same cause of chip shortage. they surely wont be the only ones. and if i remember correctly, the new converters are burr brown, which some people say, they have a warm character.

i listen to the soundcloud audio examples of the black lion mod with my studio monitors and my headphones. there is a sublte change in separation and clarity. i think it all comes down to how much you wanna spend on sound. as for myself, i achieved much better results by learning some mixing tricks and spending more time on those topics, rather than spend some extra for a mod or so – but im also not a professional and dont earn a lot of money with music.

sinik wrote:

MPC-Tutor wrote:I wasn’t aware that the SE has any improvements in the audio department. So any potential sonic differences may be down to mundane manufacturing changes, but likely completely subjective.
Don’t know about black lion stuff, I guess listen to the demos and if you think it sounds good, go for it, but I just don’t think the SE itself has anything over the x when it comes to sonics

i think i read somwhere, that they had to change converters due to manufacturing changes. there are interface brands like motu or arturia who had to do the same cause of chip shortage. they surely wont be the only ones. and if i remember correctly, the new converters are burr brown, which some people say, they have a warm character.

i listen to the soundcloud audio examples of the black lion mod with my studio monitors and my headphones. there is a sublte change in separation and clarity. i think it all comes down to how much you wanna spend on sound. as for myself, i achieved much better results by learning some mixing tricks and spending more time on those topics, rather than spend some extra for a mod or so – but im also not a professional and dont earn a lot of money with music.

I agree with this and the ears don't lie. Although YES i can hear a slight difference between my 2 MPC's it isn't enough to say it makes a difference imo. I hear the difference with Black Lion and although I like it I dont believe its enough to make a difference "to me" especially when Im mixing in the box (PC)100% of the time. Mixing is how I get my preferred sound so rather your a professional and make a lot of money or not I believe what you say to be true for many us regardless what side you are on so that's a great point for those that missed it. For those that didn't It's ABSOLUTELY preference which equals ALL GOOD.

sinik wrote:i think i read somwhere, that they had to change converters due to manufacturing changes. there are interface brands like motu had to do the same cause of chip shortage. they surely wont be the only ones. and if i remember correctly, the new converters are burr brown, which some people say, they have a warm character.

Nope.

Nothing whatsoever happened to MOTU's converters, they've been using the same ESS chips for quite awhile now, and still are. The chip shortage killed their Thunderbolt controllers, and that was due to a factory in Japan burning down (which also affected RME as well).

It's wasted outboard processing gear money. Buy once cry once.

emdog wrote:And an ADAT interface connected to an MPC, connected to a ADAT interface on a computer will give you 8-16 channels

ADAT quality will still depend on the quality of your AD or DA converters depending on which way you are going.[/quote]

There is no conversion in that chain, it's a digital chain. MPC > USB > ADAT > ADAT > USB > Computer.

Neodymium wrote:

emdog wrote:And an ADAT interface connected to an MPC, connected to a ADAT interface on a computer will give you 8-16 channels

ADAT quality will still depend on the quality of your AD or DA converters depending on which way you are going.

There is no conversion in that chain, it's a digital chain. MPC > USB > ADAT > ADAT > USB > Computer.[/quote]

Yes correct, i originally thought you were trying to add more analog inputs through adat on his mixer

Selahl Tapes wrote:Just get this https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/external-aud ... eries-rack

That's a good price. I was quite interested in purchasing this when it was first announced but my needs fell by the wayside as I knew that I'd likely get the need (addiction) of purchasing swapping out modules in the interface.

Just stumbled on this thread, interesting stuff.

Looking at BL website for example the MPC X all the offer is a single package with mods to inputs, outputs, even the headphone amp, also the converters and some other stuff.

I wouldn’t mind a better headphone amp but man it’s like if McDonalds only sold full family meals and you couldn’t just grab a bag of fries and a coke driving around.

My ears are pretty shot and I can’t hear difference between converters (and doubt many who claim to can either), but amps are another story.

And these days I imagine a lot of users never touch the inputs on their Akais. Their company not mine, but I bet BL would do better offering some ala carte items.

https://mods.blacklionaudio.com/product ... 4533469547

Neodymium wrote:I do like the 'thinking out loud aspect with forums'. If I was to talk to my friends about audio stuff, they'd be completely blank. Sometimes being challenged on things, makes defend an idea, but behind the exterior cogs start turning.

With technical issues for me often the outcomes are 1) a solution is provided 2) I have to live with that 3) running through the problem with others, makes me come up with solution out of no where, wasn't suggested or hinted at, just 'ah yeah' moments.

100 percent

Smartest most successful people I know personally or from business are all like this. Especially engineers. And the poker forums back in the day were great for this.

“Hmm, good question let’s talk it through”