MPC 3 -- Let's GO!!

Re track mutes? Is this not track mutes
@15:10 albeit not the original workflow but mutes all the same?

totally a different thing it seems to me.
This is mute like in a linear DAW.

Its just backwards to the workflow I described.
It seems, if I follow this, that you can not rearrange easily, any time, anymore.

I mean, mute a thing for an intro. Thats not it.

How do you make that intro the end, changing instrument roles at the same time?
If the idea is, to cut and paste in that timeline, I am out. definitively.

I have the feeling some people participating did not work much with the MPC.
So, to them its either all the same or even better than it was.
I guess this old workflow was also what was confusing some and drove some away.
But you cant have both kinds of people at the party.

Ok, . Taxi.

I might start with a chorus. I might start with a verse. I might start with an intro. Sequences and song mode accommodated how I worked because it all starts with an idea and I don’t know what part of the idea is going to show up first. I may do three choruses with variations I muted tracks on to created, circle back and do the verses interrupted by an idea for the intro. The outro might come early. It might come late.

If I wanted to work linearly, I’d use the Studio One and/or Ableton Live licenses I have on hand and go to town. Better yet, I’d probably invest in a Cubase license for good measure and completely bypass the MPC. I use MPCs because they allow me to work as the music comes to me. I can piece it together in the proper order once the pieces are complete or as they come together.

Now that they partially broke Song mode, looks like I’ll have to fall back on the upgrade. Sure, I’ll try in out for giggles but I’d likely switch to Cubase and/or remain at 2.15 if Song mode remains broken.

We’re not all the same and trying to get the same results. As nice as 3.0 is, may potentially ruin the joy of making music for me.

For me, DAWs are last mile tools (mix and mastering). Sometimes I use them to capture an idea that I’ll develop in the MPC. If I’m forced to work differently, I might as well do it in a DAW.

Song mode was always 'broke'. If all you can do is chain sequences, its not really song mode. What was always missing was recording new tracks across the entire chain of sequences and most importantly audio recordings across sequences. The MPC3 arrangement almost gets you there and is visual which is a great improvement. Its now less of the live improv monster but you can still do that if you want.

Exciting update and possibilities, stoked for everyone who this will work for, two major hurdles for me in this new workflow.

Standalone MPC live since 2018, something like 50 sequences in the MPC. The basis of my playing live, an 8bar sequence is effectively 'the song' and track mutes are how I play live with on the fly arrangement changes. I think this general approach is common for many of us.

1) All sequences now global track type - not all my sequences use the same track type and amount, some might be 16 tracks, some might be 20-28 whatever. I do mostly keep things the same track number/position, ie kick is always 13, clap 14, hats 15/16 etc. so this is an adaption I can probably make...as long as i remember to NOT DELETE a track that I'm not using in sequence 1...cos maybe I'm using it in seq 2!

What if my next sequence is just totally different sounds wise, I end up with a bunch of tracks way off on other banks? I'm ok with losing programs but I really want a sequence to be its own thing. For me, this global approach is really constraining this way.

2) Track mutes - oof, the total basis of my live performance. Some sequences come in with drums, some don't...etc, making this global mutes is a show stopper. I also update/change these regularly depending what/where I'm playing. Maybe sequence 50 (the 'new song') is ready for the show, but i'm gonna play it first in the set so the intro will be different re track mutes. Well in MPC3...now it changes all the track mutes...

I really want a sequence to be its own thing

I'm good with 2.15, I do have gas for updated hardware, an mpc live 3 in the same form as my OG (no speaker!) with a new processor and of course more ram. Or, hey @Akai - make a processor/ram upgrade possible for the hardware that needs it, from a sustainability approach, thats a winner.

Have a great day everyone.

LivePsy wrote:Song mode was always 'broke'.

Maybe for you. Worked perfectly for me. As I said, we’re not all the same. What is good for you is trash for me. Please don’t lecture me on what I can and can not do with 3.0 and the virtues of working your way. I’m not interested.

RandomVibration wrote:

LivePsy wrote:Song mode was always 'broke'.

Maybe for you. Worked perfectly for me. As I said, we’re not all the same. What is good for you is trash for me. Please don’t lecture me on what I can and can not do with 3.0 and the virtues of working your way. I’m not interested.

Oddly emotional response. It was Song Mode for a drum machine maybe but not for making complete songs.

From what I see it's gonna be great to record instruments and chop / edit takes etc.
Recording stuff with a Live 2 in a cosy spot in the house, that seem great to me.

But the core of the MPC workflow is not really there anymore, which is a crazy bet for AKAI to take.
Competing with DAWs seem like an unwinnable battle, I think they will end up by bringing back some of the basics like programs and track mute soon or later.
Otherwise they are gonna lose too many people.

LivePsy wrote:Oddly emotional response. It was Song Mode for a drum machine maybe but not for making complete songs.

eLuSiVeMiTe wrote:It defines a workflow for many.

I've never worked in a linear fashion on my MPCs.

One sequence. 4/8/16/32 bars depending on genre
6 tracks of drums. 1 program.
Kick snares hats etc.

3 bass tracks various variations for song changes.
Same for keys lead etc.

Il jam an arrangement playing track mutes
When the core parts of the track are in place and initially mixed il copy that sequence mute and create my intro
Copy seq again and so on building up the track in song mode.

Then individual sequences can be edited for builds fills etc working within small chunks rather than 200 bars to scroll through and try and set fiddly loop points.

When I'm happy. Convert to a new sequence and record automations.

As somebody said above. If I want to work in a linear fashion I may as well sit on my pc with many times the ram and a 49" ultrawide instead of piddling around with fat fingers on a tiny touchscreen.

My workflow evolved to keep my tracks structured across sequences and to avoid editing long midi tracks while being able to build full complex tracks quickly.

Quoted myself to save typing it out again.

For me song mode was never broken.
It worked perfectly with the above method.
Quick without having to trawl 100s of bars of midi.

It was less "Broken" before 3.0. Now it seems pointless to be there.

eLuSiVeMiTe wrote:

LivePsy wrote:Oddly emotional response. It was Song Mode for a drum machine maybe but not for making complete songs.

eLuSiVeMiTe wrote:It defines a workflow for many.

I've never worked in a linear fashion on my MPCs.

One sequence. 4/8/16/32 bars depending on genre
6 tracks of drums. 1 program.
Kick snares hats etc.

3 bass tracks various variations for song changes.
Same for keys lead etc.

Il jam an arrangement playing track mutes
When the core parts of the track are in place and initially mixed il copy that sequence mute and create my intro
Copy seq again and so on building up the track in song mode.

Then individual sequences can be edited for builds fills etc working within small chunks rather than 200 bars to scroll through and try and set fiddly loop points.

When I'm happy. Convert to a new sequence and record automations.

As somebody said above. If I want to work in a linear fashion I may as well sit on my pc with many times the ram and a 49" ultrawide instead of piddling around with fat fingers on a tiny touchscreen.

My workflow evolved to keep my tracks structured across sequences and to avoid editing long midi tracks while being able to build full complex tracks quickly.

Quoted myself to save typing it out again.

For me song mode was never broken.
It worked perfectly with the above method.
Quick without having to trawl 100s of bars of midi.

It was less "Broken" before 3.0. Now it seems pointless to be there.

The global muting (and currently cuts sound instantly is a very stupid idea.

The MPC needs a clip based seq like the Force this will solve the problem global mutes. With the clip matrix you can make 1 main seq & copy it a bunch of times, but instead of muting a track you just delete that clip in that seq. Then you record the sequences in the order you want into the Arranger. I think there are more than 1 Arranger seq on 3.0 so you could come up multiple song version easier than on the Force. Clips is what 3.0 is missing. Maybe they will add it later.

Here two videos I made showing different ways to use the clip-matrix. The first emulate the current MPC style & the second emulates Ableton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EqgHG1oPp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ankzrt01JZ4

Song Mode only seems stupid until you discover track mutes pet sequence then it completely makes sense. And tbh it's why I have an MPC and not just using Ableton/Reaper. The speed in which I can build up an arrangements using this method is waaaay faster than working just in an arranger view in a DAW.

For anyone saying stop complaining and move on, this is the time to actually raise concerns and feedback. It's a beta release that's clearly been positioned to test the water. If ppl push hard enough then it may not be too late for them to reintroduce certain features / address concerns.

Every part of the update seems spot on except the move to global track mutes for me. Make this a toggle option if need be.

Having sequence level mute states plus arranger views would make the MPC standout over the Push 3 and Force. I make a house, so it's not just a hip hop workflow. Whilst coming up with ideas in clips cam be more fun, sketching out an arrangement using loys of scenes with 64 pads all lit up becomes a headache. The MPC song mode workflow is far simpler and faster. This worklw plus arranger view would push the MPC to the next level.

Definitely sounding like a broken record with this, but it's the one feature I was not expecting to be removed, that in my mind defines the MPC for arrangement.

Users shouldn't be forced to not upgrade, it's a critical feature not a broken legacy feature.

Trying to get my head around the Track Mutes. So if you Mute Track in your sequence, the next sequence keeps the same Track Mute status. So would the whole problem be overcome, with an option somewhere "Store mute status with sequence"?

I only use one bank of tracks. so would a workaround be to assign my next 16 tracks from the next sequence to the next bank, so they can have their mutes set independently from the previous sequence. Then take a moment when that sequence is playing to unmute all of sequence 1 mutes, for sequence 3 to be ready, and alternate sequences through 2 banks. Or work my way through 8 sequences and 8 banks, then reset them all.

If we don't upgrade to 3, does this mean that any new plugins released after 3 won't be available for users on 2?

Neodymium wrote:Trying to get my head around the Track Mutes. So if you Mute Track in your sequence, the next sequence keeps the same Track Mute status. So would the whole problem be overcome, with an option somewhere "Store mute status with sequence"?

Yes, which is how it works in 2, its perfect

Neodymium wrote:I only use one bank of tracks. so would a workaround be to assign my next 16 tracks from the next sequence to the next bank, so they can have their mutes set independently from the previous sequence. Then take a moment when that sequence is playing to unmute all of sequence 1 mutes, for sequence 3 to be ready, and alternate sequences through 2 banks. Or work my way through 8 sequences and 8 banks, then reset them all.

Not in the current iteration, because track mutes are global, any change made in any sequence takes effect for all sequences.

Neodymium wrote:If we don't upgrade to 3, does this mean that any new plugins released after 3 won't be available for users on 2?

Hmmm, Akai wants to take your money, and the processors are all the same (i think?) so backwards compatibility on plugins would be one of the things they'd want to keep going for a while? I wouldn't expect it forever, but the platform is 6 or 7 years old, thats along time in modern tech!

Neodymium wrote:I only use one bank of tracks. so would a workaround be to assign my next 16 tracks from the next sequence to the next bank, so they can have their mutes set independently from the previous sequence. Then take a moment when that sequence is playing to unmute all of sequence 1 mutes, for sequence 3 to be ready, and alternate sequences through 2 banks. Or work my way through 8 sequences and 8 banks, then reset them all.

Not in the current iteration, because track mutes are global, any change made in any sequence takes effect for all sequences.

Neodymium wrote:If we don't upgrade to 3, does this mean that any new plugins released after 3 won't be available for users on 2?

But if it's global and I have Sequence 1 use Track Mute Bank A, and Sequences 2 use Track Mute Bank B, then any changes on Sequence 1 wouldn't affect Sequence 2, because globally they are assigned different Track Mute Banks. This will mean I have to move all my tracks for Sequence 2 up 16 tracks so they are affected by the Track Mute Bank B (maybe I'd have to assign some dummy filler tracks into the first 16 places to do this if they can't be empty).

Or am I still misunderstanding what you mean by 'global'

Neodymium wrote:If we don't upgrade to 3, does this mean that any new plugins released after 3 won't be available for users on 2?

Hmmm, Akai wants to take your money, and the processors are all the same (i think?) so backwards compatibility on plugins would be one of the things they'd want to keep going for a while? I wouldn't expect it forever, but the platform is 6 or 7 years old, thats along time in modern tech![/quote]

Yeah, this swings both ways. If I don't upgrade, but I can get plug-ins, then I'm just missing out on any bug fixes and new features. Or, If the next plug-n requires an upgrades they've reduced their revenue stream from a group of users staying on 2, so the incentive is their to address their needs.

I like a lot of the new features, especially the simpler audio routing and choice to rearrange FX order, but playing live is my real goal and why I got the MPC. So it currently works for that. And to be honest I have more than enough synths, so not paying for new plug-ins isn't that much of a kicker. Although missing out on the Midi bug-fix would be a frustrating, if they ever get around to it.