Let's talk about Mpc Reverb.

https://www.vintagedigital.com.au/lexic ... erberator/

For example, Lexicon 224, built in 1978.
12bit converters.
What kind of processors did they have in 1978?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_8080

Intel 8080 Max.
8 Bit.
CPU clock rate 2 MHz to 3.125 MHz

And we think that MPC doesn't have enough cpu power for a good quality reverb?

T-Monk wrote:External effects processing isn’t a great option with the MPC One since there are only stereo ins and outs.

Precisely, my point is that there is no magic workaround to make a bad reverb sound good. It has to sound good at first place.

And then I just discovered that Alesis belongs to Inmusic, as Akai.
Alesis was top class for reverbs in the 80s, with Microverb and Midiverb.
So why Akai doesn't ask help to Alesis, porting those algorithms on MPC?
I think something like Microverb would be enough to have a good reverb on standalone.

mpc_fan_2022 wrote:
Precisely, my point is that there is no magic workaround to make a bad reverb sound good. It has to sound good at first place.

Hell yea....You shouldn't have to use an Extreme amount of Reverb unless you creating an Orchestral Composition or some Sh*t lol. If you need that much Reverb, then you need to question the source sample.
There's like 38 different reverbs on the MPC lol. Most of them, you can contour, shape, stereo widen til your heart is content.
I think most people want an INSTANT One Button Push Default Set Good sounding reverb, instead teaching themselves on how to Apply/Tweak the Reverb settings.

Just my 2cents lol

40Beatz wrote:

mpc_fan_2022 wrote:
Precisely, my point is that there is no magic workaround to make a bad reverb sound good. It has to sound good at first place.

Hell yea....You shouldn't have to use an Extreme amount of Reverb unless you creating an Orchestral Composition or some Sh*t lol. If you need that much Reverb, then you need to question the source sample.
There's like 38 different reverbs on the MPC lol. Most of them, you can contour, shape, stereo widen til your heart is content.
I think most people want an INSTANT One Button Push Default Set Good sounding reverb, instead teaching themselves on how to Apply/Tweak the Reverb settings.

Just my 2cents lol

No man, we are not talking about an instant one and I tweaked all parameters of Air Reverb, chained it with other fx, eq, and whatever
And trust me, I know what I am doing.
Air Reverb is not even at the level of a Lexicon of 50 years ago, a Quadraverb of 35 years ago and so on.
Just listen to how those units sounded and then listen to the Air Reverb.
A good reverb builds a space and moves the source sound inside it. I would call it a 3d processing. And it never ruins your source sounds, even at long decays.
That's how a Lexicon or a Quadraverb sound.
Air Reverb doesn't build any space, all stays in front, it's sort of 2d and it masks your source sound a lot.
So I just think that Air, which overall made very good fx for Mpc, doesn't have the skill to make a good reverb and that's it.

Straker wrote:So I just think that Air, which overall made very good fx for Mpc, doesn't have the skill to make a good reverb and that's it.

Ehhh... Now you're going off the rails. Air Music Tech absolutely has the skill to make a GREAT reverb. Air Music Tech (when with Avid) were responsible for many of Pro Tools absolutely solid effects and plugins, etc - and many an album were recorded on Pro Tools using their products.

There are a variety of reasons of why we don't have a higher quality reverb on the MPC/Force in standalone, but skill/technical ability is not one of them. I'm not prepared to be an armchair CEO to explain what those reasons are, so you'll just have to trust me.

EnochLight wrote:

Straker wrote:So I just think that Air, which overall made very good fx for Mpc, doesn't have the skill to make a good reverb and that's it.

Ehhh... Now you're going off the rails. Air Music Tech absolutely has the skill to make a GREAT reverb. Air Music Tech (when with Avid) were responsible for many of Pro Tools absolutely solid effects and plugins, etc - and many an album were recorded on Pro Tools using their products.

There are a variety of reasons of why we don't have a higher quality reverb on the MPC/Force in standalone, but skill/technical ability is not one of them. I'm not prepared to be an armchair CEO to explain what those reasons are, so you'll just have to trust me.

As far as I know, the Air arsenal fx for Pro Tools didn't have a reverb or, if there was one, I don't think it was used on recording studios, I think there were better options.
And as far as I know, there are no Air reverbs on the market that are popular or used by recording studios.
A high quality reverb is a difficult one to program, compared to other basic fx, and I don't dislike Air fx at all, they are very good.
And again, how is it possible that 50 years ago we had a Lexicon that sounded so good that was used in countless masterpieces, starting from Vangelis, Brian Eno and so on, while today, with 1000 more cpu power, they are not able to make a decent one for a Arm chip?
Just get those algorithms and custom them.
As they made a Vintage Filter fx, they could easily make a Vintage Reverb one, the resources are there.

Straker wrote:As far as I know, the Air arsenal fx for Pro Tools didn't have a reverb or, if there was one, I don't think it was used on recording studios, I think there were better options.
And as far as I know, there are no Air reverbs on the market that are popular or used by recording studios.
A high quality reverb is a difficult one to program, compared to other basic fx, and I don't dislike Air fx at all, they are very good.
And again, how is it possible that 50 years ago we had a Lexicon that sounded so good that was used in countless masterpieces, starting from Vangelis, Brian Eno and so on, while today, with 1000 more cpu power, they are not able to make a decent one for a Arm chip?
Just get those algorithms and custom them.
As they made a Vintage Filter fx, they could easily make a Vintage Reverb one, the resources are there.

All nice things to ponder, and all great questions. But assuming Air doesn't know how to do it isn't the only explanation. But we can armchair CEO all we want. This thread is to talk about MPC reverb, afterall!

EnochLight wrote:

Straker wrote:As far as I know, the Air arsenal fx for Pro Tools didn't have a reverb or, if there was one, I don't think it was used on recording studios, I think there were better options.
And as far as I know, there are no Air reverbs on the market that are popular or used by recording studios.
A high quality reverb is a difficult one to program, compared to other basic fx, and I don't dislike Air fx at all, they are very good.
And again, how is it possible that 50 years ago we had a Lexicon that sounded so good that was used in countless masterpieces, starting from Vangelis, Brian Eno and so on, while today, with 1000 more cpu power, they are not able to make a decent one for a Arm chip?
Just get those algorithms and custom them.
As they made a Vintage Filter fx, they could easily make a Vintage Reverb one, the resources are there.

All nice things to ponder, and all great questions. But assuming Air doesn't know how to do it isn't the only explanation. But we can armchair CEO all we want. This thread is to talk about MPC reverb, afterall!

I am determined to become CEO of InMusic and force Air to get Alesis reverb algorithms and make a Vintage Reverb Pro for MPC.
Then I will force all MPC development stuff to focus on the Sampler and improve it and make it the centre of MPC again.
And I will use some funds to pay a midi expert and solve all midi issues once for all.
That's my plan for 2025.

Straker wrote:I am determined to become CEO of InMusic and force Air to get Alesis reverb algorithms and make a Vintage Reverb Pro for MPC.
Then I will force all MPC development stuff to focus on the Sampler and improve it and make it the centre of MPC again.
And I will use some funds to pay a midi expert and solve all midi issues once for all.
That's my plan for 2025.

40Beatz wrote:
Hell yea....You shouldn't have to use an Extreme amount of Reverb unless you creating an Orchestral Composition or some Sh*t lol. If you need that much Reverb, then you need to question the source sample.
There's like 38 different reverbs on the MPC lol. Most of them, you can contour, shape, stereo widen til your heart is content.
I think most people want an INSTANT One Button Push Default Set Good sounding reverb, instead teaching themselves on how to Apply/Tweak the Reverb settings.

Just my 2cents lol

"it's a skill issue bro".

LOL, no it is not, at least from the MPC user's side...

If you are interested in old school Alesis reverb algorithms look up the Spin DSP reverb chip examples.
The chip had been designed by Keith Barr.
The algorithms are not too complicated but unique, and they use a diffusion coefficient of 0.5.
This coefficient determins the balance between feed forward and feedback in a delay unit block known as "Schroeder Allpass", and 0.5 was chosen back in the day cause you can implement it with no math as a bit shift.
The result, along with the unique topography, is a "breathing" very dispersed "hhhwoosh" kind of reverb tail.

mpc_fan_2022 wrote:
"it's a skill issue bro".

LOL, no it is not, at least from the MPC user's side...

Definitely a Skill Issue. Or an Ear Wax Issue

40Beatz wrote:

mpc_fan_2022 wrote:
"it's a skill issue bro".

LOL, no it is not, at least [not] from the MPC user's side...

Definitely a Skill Issue. Or an Ear Wax Issue

A person's "skill" has ZERO to do with the quality of a reverb algorithm.

40Beatz wrote:

mpc_fan_2022 wrote:
Precisely, my point is that there is no magic workaround to make a bad reverb sound good. It has to sound good at first place.

Hell yea....You shouldn't have to use an Extreme amount of Reverb unless you creating an Orchestral Composition or some Sh*t lol. If you need that much Reverb, then you need to question the source sample.
There's like 38 different reverbs on the MPC lol. Most of them, you can contour, shape, stereo widen til your heart is content.
I think most people want an INSTANT One Button Push Default Set Good sounding reverb, instead teaching themselves on how to Apply/Tweak the Reverb settings.

Just my 2cents lol

Oh boy