Akai is back at NAMM this year

Just thought I'd pipe up in response to the people saying 'what else could Akai do in the sampler'?

The modulation section is so basic compared to what existed on the MPC4000. Where the 4K had a modulation matrix, and two free-running multi-shape LFOs, the current line of MPC firmware/software has one LFO that is not an LFO. If it retriggers on every pad/keyboard note then it's not an LFO, just an LFO-shaped envelope. This single thing is a massive block on sound design on the current MPC as you can't modulate anything that will freely move over time, e.g. filter, pitch, start point of sample. There were rack samplers as far back as 1990 that had these features, and 35 years later we don't have one in these machines.

Beyond that, the sort of things I can think of are that some samplers can freeze on a wave and let you 'travellate' the sound using either additive or granular windowing, and you can assign that to a controller (the MPCs have plenty of q-links waiting for this). They're really just one-shot machines right now that no serious samplist or sound designer would invest much time in.

Another function that the CPU on the MPC is more than capable of doing but hasn't been considered by the developers = in Ableton when it analyses waves that are in a folder, it guesses the tempo of percussive samples based on their transients. When these samples are dragged into a Drum Rack in Ableton Live (the equivalent of your MPC pads) it adjusts the playback rate of the samples to be playing in time with your song tempo. If you have resample/varispeed normal mode then it will just slow down or speed up a percussive sample, if you have a Warp mode on then it will retain the pitch but match your sample carefully to the song tempo and you can divide by 2 or multiply by 2 the playback from there.

The MPC5000 used to have a feature in the file browser where if you selected a folder of samples, it would load everything that it found inside the folder onto pads, one by one, until 64 pads had been filled. If it then ran out of space it would automatically generate another new drum Program and carry on dumping samples onto pads until it had loaded every file from your chosen folder. This was incredibly useful and time saving, and you could end up with great happy accidents, taking you beyond the predictable basic kit format. This is such a mundane and easily programmed feature yet it's completely absent on the current machines, which require manual assignment of samples onto pads. I worked a lot faster on the MPC5000 for almost this reason alone, and never had to think too hard about which samples went where because I could just fill up folders with all sorts of sample chaos and the machine itself would make my programs for me, which was great for coming up with unexpected material.

Another missing feature = Microtonal tuning. While desktop samplers like Logic's Sampler, Ableton and Kontakt support this, the MPC does not. The Sequential synths like Pro 3, Prophet 5 etc have microtonal tuning. Hardware synths like the Kodamo EssenceFM have it built in too. Many VST plugins support it, even 'simple' samplers like TAL. It's an almost CPU-inconsequential addition to a box like the MPC since it's only pitch scaling values for the sample playback, but again, these boxes are just one-shot drum machines with a few bells and whistles.

All this aside - I bought the X SE with the intention of running it tethered to get access to Audio Unit/VST plugin effects and more audio tracks than standalone, however the MPC.app is a travesty on Apple Silicon machines and can barely operate under a 512 samples buffer without the audio breaking up into pops and clicks, and the tempo going all over the place. They better have a wholly rewritten MPC v3 desktop app on the way or I'm completely done with the platform.

Straker wrote:Ok, let's stop it here, I am sorry I don't want to monopolize the thread, it's about Namm, let's all have fun with Mpc, at the end I am really liking it.
But they didn't add any feature. They added layers and improved algorithms, which is good.
Adding features means focusing on it and really coming out with something interesting, I mean, we can load long samples now, more of them, but the features are still about shorter samples as it was in 1997. The Cpu is there, many things can be done with it.
How old is mr. Linndrum?
All the best for him, the patriarch.

4 more sample layers, MPC stems, & streaming. But this isn't adding anything interesting. I just asked to add to the thread of what features would you like them to the sampler & you ignored it. This thread is about NAMM. Right before NAMM you pop up starting all this drama... Interesting

Have you tried creating sample-based instruments on your MPC? Something that's not piano/drum/hit. Does the MPC3 sampler have working sustain loop fine-tuning? There are elements for this in the XML format already, they just don't actually do anything, so tuning a very short loop at the end of a longer sample is practically impossible. How about legato which only changes the pitch of a sounding note, and doesn't re-trigger the sample from the start, so that it would sound like, you know, legato? Or how about, program-level effects and filters that aren't per-voice. With some fixes and simple improvements, the keygroup sampler would be much better for creating third-party sound libraries. But making the sampler better for users to create sounds and for 3rd party XML+WAV sample libraries wouldn't make Inmusic any money at all, would it. So instead... you get whatever paid and online-authorization-locked shit it's going to be at NAMM now.

I hope the 3.0 ecosystem opens up development for presets with macros. The ability to map multiple parameters and limit their min/max values could make for some even better sound design on the MPC.

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:how about, program-level effects and filters that aren't per-voice.

Program/Track level filters would be amazing & speed things up when working with macros & you set different pads to the same knob & want them to have the same parameter ranges. Currently you have to set up each pad range one by one. Giving us the ability to have an edit all option in the macro section would be great.

B-Wise wrote:

Straker wrote:Ok, let's stop it here, I am sorry I don't want to monopolize the thread, it's about Namm, let's all have fun with Mpc, at the end I am really liking it.
But they didn't add any feature. They added layers and improved algorithms, which is good.
Adding features means focusing on it and really coming out with something interesting, I mean, we can load long samples now, more of them, but the features are still about shorter samples as it was in 1997. The Cpu is there, many things can be done with it.
How old is mr. Linndrum?
All the best for him, the patriarch.

4 more sample layers, MPC stems, & streaming. But this isn't adding anything interesting. I just asked to add to the thread of what features would you like them to the sampler & you ignored it. This thread is about NAMM. Right before NAMM you pop up starting all this drama... Interesting

I am not ignoring your thread.
I am just thinking, I will be writing there soon.
For now, read all the very very interesting posts before that, you see, I am not alone, I am not making dramas.

John Schaefer wrote:Just thought I'd pipe up in response to the people saying 'what else could Akai do in the sampler'?

The modulation section is so basic compared to what existed on the MPC4000. Where the 4K had a modulation matrix, and two free-running multi-shape LFOs, the current line of MPC firmware/software has one LFO that is not an LFO. If it retriggers on every pad/keyboard note then it's not an LFO, just an LFO-shaped envelope. This single thing is a massive block on sound design on the current MPC as you can't modulate anything that will freely move over time, e.g. filter, pitch, start point of sample. There were rack samplers as far back as 1990 that had these features, and 35 years later we don't have one in these machines.

Beyond that, the sort of things I can think of are that some samplers can freeze on a wave and let you 'travellate' the sound using either additive or granular windowing, and you can assign that to a controller (the MPCs have plenty of q-links waiting for this). They're really just one-shot machines right now that no serious samplist or sound designer would invest much time in.

Another function that the CPU on the MPC is more than capable of doing but hasn't been considered by the developers = in Ableton when it analyses waves that are in a folder, it guesses the tempo of percussive samples based on their transients. When these samples are dragged into a Drum Rack in Ableton Live (the equivalent of your MPC pads) it adjusts the playback rate of the samples to be playing in time with your song tempo. If you have resample/varispeed normal mode then it will just slow down or speed up a percussive sample, if you have a Warp mode on then it will retain the pitch but match your sample carefully to the song tempo and you can divide by 2 or multiply by 2 the playback from there.

The MPC5000 used to have a feature in the file browser where if you selected a folder of samples, it would load everything that it found inside the folder onto pads, one by one, until 64 pads had been filled. If it then ran out of space it would automatically generate another new drum Program and carry on dumping samples onto pads until it had loaded every file from your chosen folder. This was incredibly useful and time saving, and you could end up with great happy accidents, taking you beyond the predictable basic kit format. This is such a mundane and easily programmed feature yet it's completely absent on the current machines, which require manual assignment of samples onto pads. I worked a lot faster on the MPC5000 for almost this reason alone, and never had to think too hard about which samples went where because I could just fill up folders with all sorts of sample chaos and the machine itself would make my programs for me, which was great for coming up with unexpected material.

Another missing feature = Microtonal tuning. While desktop samplers like Logic's Sampler, Ableton and Kontakt support this, the MPC does not. The Sequential synths like Pro 3, Prophet 5 etc have microtonal tuning. Hardware synths like the Kodamo EssenceFM have it built in too. Many VST plugins support it, even 'simple' samplers like TAL. It's an almost CPU-inconsequential addition to a box like the MPC since it's only pitch scaling values for the sample playback, but again, these boxes are just one-shot drum machines with a few bells and whistles.

All this aside - I bought the X SE with the intention of running it tethered to get access to Audio Unit/VST plugin effects and more audio tracks than standalone, however the MPC.app is a travesty on Apple Silicon machines and can barely operate under a 512 samples buffer without the audio breaking up into pops and clicks, and the tempo going all over the place. They better have a wholly rewritten MPC v3 desktop app on the way or I'm completely done with the platform.

THIS ^

and especially this:

"Beyond that, the sort of things I can think of are that some samplers can freeze on a wave and let you 'travellate' the sound using either additive or granular windowing, and you can assign that to a controller (the MPCs have plenty of q-links waiting for this). They're really just one-shot machines right now that no serious samplist or sound designer would invest much time in."

Certified Beatz wrote:Always one in the crowd to complain

The nerve of some people not falling in line with the cheering for whatever is handed down to us and the excusing of what's not!

B-Wise wrote:Right before NAMM you pop up starting all this drama... Interesting

He's a heathen! Possibly a foreign agent

40Beatz wrote:Can we have Examples of the Endless Possibilities the Current Sampler is Lacking?

Sure, but for now, how about just a basic mod matrix or at the very least some very basic freely assignable sources like say keyboard tracking and a couple of actual LFOs? I haven't heard about them adding negative envelope phases yet so I assume that's still missing as well. These kinds of features have been pretty much standard in samplers for more than 30 years. They're not advanced at all but their addition as a whole would certainly approach "Endless Possibilities" compared to the current state of the sampler.

You can act like Straker is alone on his stance all day but the truth is that people are just tired of pointing this out time and again to fanboys who only want to hear praise and celebration about their beloved MPC. You've been active participants here for years and should know as well as others that there are widely spread dissatisfaction with the sampler engine of the current MPC line so you're either lying to yourselves or you have a very strange way of processing the information you read with some highly specialized filtering involved.

I get that the thread is about NAMM but by shouting down any sign of dissent against your rosy perception of the MPC / Akai and falsely painting them as deviant and absurd you're actively prolonging what didn't have to become a derailment at all.

This basically this was a Software vs Hardware Issue/Rant! lol

Lets go Positive now...

I'm hoping there is New Hardware at the NAMM.

The only feature I would like to alter in the Sampler Section...

Is the ability to add a "End Loop Point" Marker. That would help out alot. Other than that I've been working with it the way it is

John Schaefer wrote:Just thought I'd pipe up in response to the people saying 'what else could Akai do in the sampler'?

The modulation section is so basic compared to what existed on the MPC4000. Where the 4K had a modulation matrix, and two free-running multi-shape LFOs, the current line of MPC firmware/software has one LFO that is not an LFO. If it retriggers on every pad/keyboard note then it's not an LFO, just an LFO-shaped envelope. This single thing is a massive block on sound design on the current MPC as you can't modulate anything that will freely move over time, e.g. filter, pitch, start point of sample. There were rack samplers as far back as 1990 that had these features, and 35 years later we don't have one in these machines.

Beyond that, the sort of things I can think of are that some samplers can freeze on a wave and let you 'travellate' the sound using either additive or granular windowing, and you can assign that to a controller (the MPCs have plenty of q-links waiting for this). They're really just one-shot machines right now that no serious samplist or sound designer would invest much time in.

....

Another missing feature = Microtonal tuning. While desktop samplers like Logic's Sampler, Ableton and Kontakt support this, the MPC does not. The Sequential synths like Pro 3, Prophet 5 etc have microtonal tuning. Hardware synths like the Kodamo EssenceFM have it built in too. Many VST plugins support it, even 'simple' samplers like TAL. It's an almost CPU-inconsequential addition to a box like the MPC since it's only pitch scaling values for the sample playback, but again, these boxes are just one-shot drum machines with a few bells and whistles.

I would use all these features pretty heavily. My MPC One has CVs out for modular but no free running LFOs? So strange. I currently do microtuning by adjusting the Fine setting on each drum pad. Needless to say, Scala compatibility would make that task so much easier. And finally, the sampler section is cool for chopping but it's really lacking for looping and tweaking for sound design. Having some granular options would be great.

HUBA wrote:

Certified Beatz wrote:Always one in the crowd to complain

The nerve of some people not falling in line with the cheering for whatever is handed down to us and the excusing of what's not!

B-Wise wrote:Right before NAMM you pop up starting all this drama... Interesting

He's a heathen! Possibly a foreign agent

40Beatz wrote:Can we have Examples of the Endless Possibilities the Current Sampler is Lacking?

Sure, but for now, how about just a basic mod matrix or at the very least some very basic freely assignable sources like say keyboard tracking and a couple of actual LFOs? I haven't heard about them adding negative envelope phases yet so I assume that's still missing as well. These kinds of features have been pretty much standard in samplers for more than 30 years. They're not advanced at all but their addition as a whole would certainly approach "Endless Possibilities" compared to the current state of the sampler.

You can act like Straker is alone on his stance all day but the truth is that people are just tired of pointing this out time and again to fanboys who only want to hear praise and celebration about their beloved MPC. You've been active participants here for years and should know as well as others that there are widely spread dissatisfaction with the sampler engine of the current MPC line so you're either lying to yourselves or you have a very strange way of processing the information you read with some highly specialized filtering involved.

I get that the thread is about NAMM but by shouting down any sign of dissent against your rosy perception of the MPC / Akai and falsely painting them as deviant and absurd you're actively prolonging what didn't have to become a derailment at all.

That sounds very much like a description of Ave Mcree

sample editing features in the current mpc os are a joke, still.
it needs independent loop start / end region regardless of sample start / end and the option to modulate sample start via lfo and more loop options ie. bi-directional loop.

edit:
if they would add "clap" support tho, I'd jus run a proper sampler plugin instead

machinesworking wrote:if you need truly advanced sampling features then the MPC is always going to be behind Raven, Halion or Kontakt.

Nobody was asking for truly advanced sampling features. Your statement is probably true in terms of handling GB sized multisamples but beyond that I'm not really sure what you mean by truly advanced sampling features. However, a couple of examples of "advanced" or semi advanced would IMO be:

1) Samples being able to modulate each other like osc sync and cross modulation. For instance the Blofeld does this. Even the Roland JD-990 which was released in 1993 did.

2) I believe what John Schaefer is referring to is the loop traveling feature where you can modulate both sample start and sample end at the same time which makes the sample loop travel across the sample while the sample is playing, similarly to transwaves. Unless I'm mistaken this first occurred in Ensoniq synths / workstations in the late 80's.

While "advanced" features may be fun and inspiring, that fact alone doesn't automatically make them resource hogs. It requires however some amount of vision and enthusiasm on the designers part and a vocal and supportive user base who doesn't simply cheer for any feature update but who know to spread the word when designers deliver.

Besides the examples above I would suggest that any somewhat extensive modulation matrix alone is already enough in order to make a sampler fairly advanced. Particularly when allowed for esoteric sources/destinations/routing, modulation of other destinations modulation amount etc. I don't expect the MPC's to have any of this added now or ever, though it should certainly be possible to implement. However a basic face lift like the one suggested in my previous post would make a world of difference for those who care about sampling and I don't see how it in any way would hurt Akai as a brand to acknowledge what's in essence in many ways their original fan base.

HUBA wrote:

machinesworking wrote:if you need truly advanced sampling features then the MPC is always going to be behind Raven, Halion or Kontakt.

Nobody was asking for truly advanced sampling features. Your statement is probably true in terms of handling GB sized multisamples but beyond that I'm not really sure what you mean by truly advanced sampling features. However, a couple of examples of "advanced" or semi advanced would IMO be:

1) Samples being able to modulate each other like osc sync and cross modulation. For instance the Blofeld does this. Even the Roland JD-990 which was released in 1993 did.

2) I believe what John Schaefer is referring to is the loop traveling feature where you can modulate both sample start and sample end at the same time which makes the sample loop travel across the sample while the sample is playing, similarly to transwaves. Unless I'm mistaken this first occurred in Ensoniq synths / workstations in the late 80's.

While "advanced" features may be fun and inspiring, that fact alone doesn't automatically make them resource hogs. It requires however some amount of vision and enthusiasm on the designers part and a vocal and supportive user base who doesn't simply cheer for any feature update but who know to spread the word when designers deliver.

Besides the examples above I would suggest that any somewhat extensive modulation matrix alone is already enough in order to make a sampler fairly advanced. Particularly when allowed for esoteric sources/destinations/routing, modulation of other destinations modulation amount etc. I don't expect the MPC's to have any of this added now or ever, though it should certainly be possible to implement. However a basic face lift like the one suggested in my previous post would make a world of difference for those who care about sampling and I don't see how it in any way would hurt Akai as a brand to acknowledge what's in essence in many ways their original fan base.

Excellent post.
I would go for point 2 immediately.
My point is, to be more clear:
Let's say I have an 8 bar long sample, not a beat, not synced, it could be a field recording of voices in a train station or nature sounds or whatever.
So, let me play with this sample in a live performance.
Let me change start and end points without clicking and without stopping the flow.
Let me reverse it, put it straight back again, and so on or at least let me build a pattern, straight-reverse-straight-reverse or s-s-s-r or r-s-s-r or whatever.
Let me slow down the sample, fasten it, and so on.
Let me PLAY with that sample in real time in a performance.
There are many things like those I write that can be done easily, they don't take cpu so much, they don't need high tech, they just need the wish to do it.
I am just scratching the surface, possibilities are endless.
But we are still without a mod matrix, we have a bunch of very basic Lfo, nothing serious at the moment to pretend MPC is an advanced sampler to be played live with fun using samples that are not drum kits, ready made phrases made by others on expansions and things like that.

I can kinda do that with the WARP Function in realtime....to a certain degree before it sounds terrible. Reversing in realtime is possible as well.

See me....If i was performing Live....I would have a Laptop with me performing all those features. Putting the Faith of my Performance in the MPC alone would be silly. Or I'd grab some Serato Turntables.