I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forward!

Support and discussion for all of Akai’s modern standalone MPCs including the MPC X / X SE, MPC Live 1, 2 & 3, MPC One / One+, MPC Key 37/61.
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Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By sinik Fri Jan 31, 2025 9:38 am
MPC-Tutor wrote:Don’t have 2 hours spare, anyone like to summarise his points?


it's really hard to point out specific talking points, because there is a lot of stuff he is covering.
but basically he is saying that the mpc is behaving more like a DAW in a box instead of being a groovebox. he also criticize some bad workflow decisions (arm on and off/ fake channel strip, nested menus) and how shakey some of the product videos from andy mac are looking when he tries to nudge or select something in the grid view.

all valid talking points imo.
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Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By MPC-Tutor Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:01 am
Thanks, I managed to whizz through it to try to get the general gist, these are all valid talking points.

What I didn't see was any mention of the changes to programs, for me this would maybe be the one thing that perfectly defines the whole problem with the direction Akai are taking things. They've dropped one of the fundamental aspects of what makes the MPC 'an MPC' in order to accomodate more DAW-like workflows, making many existing MPC workflows either too convoluted or mostly impractical (same kit on multiple tracks, live sets, using a project for multiple beat ideas etc).

As he says, you can't blame Akai for seeing all the $$$ that can be made from the plugins and other add ons, as well as appealing to a much wider market of people who want 'standalone DAWs'. But it seems like we have lost that MPC that many of us fell in love with. I think back to my early days with the MPC2000XL and I definitely enjoyed the experience of creating far more than I do now, it was so simple and natural. But I also remember cursing the lack of x, y, and z features, the reality is, people always want more.

sinik wrote:
MPC-Tutor wrote:Don’t have 2 hours spare, anyone like to summarise his points?


it's really hard to point out specific talking points, because there is a lot of stuff he is covering.
but basically he is saying that the mpc is behaving more like a DAW in a box instead of being a groovebox. he also criticize some bad workflow decisions (arm on and off/ fake channel strip, nested menus) and how shakey some of the product videos from andy mac are looking when he tries to nudge or select something in the grid view.

all valid talking points imo.

Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By sinik Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:14 am
MPC-Tutor wrote:As he says, you can't blame Akai for seeing all the $$$ that can be made from the plugins and other add ons, as well as appealing to a much wider market of people who want 'standalone DAWs'. But it seems like we have lost that MPC that many of us fell in love with. I think back to my early days with the MPC2000XL and I definitely enjoyed the experience of creating far more than I do now, it was so simple and natural. But I also remember cursing the lack of x, y, and z features, the reality is, people always want more.


when i think about it, they also target a completely different audience nowerdays.

it's not really about making an instrument for "pros" or people who want to put serious work in producing music, its more about bedroom producers who want to be able to make music as quick and easy as possible without spending cash on equipment or deal with learning audio and stuff like that. everything is fast food nowerdays, and how we make or consume music has adapted to that. so as a company, they have a completely different focus nowerdays.

BUT!!! whats weird to me is; major DAWs like Logic Pro X, Ableton etc. has adapted as well, without losing their core workflow or focus on what they want to deliver. they are still competitive and relevant.

... and thats what i think some of the hardware groovebox companys differ and struggling. i dont personally own an elektron maschine, but they maybe one of the big companys, which acutally deliver on that aspect. that also implies, that there is actually a audience for that as well, although i dont get down with small and quirky devices.
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Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By MPC-Tutor Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:19 am
sinik wrote:i dont personally own an elektron maschine, but they maybe one of the big companys, which acutally deliver on that aspect i think.


I have several Elektron machines, absolutely love using them, and not a touchscreen in sight. My wife however is not a fan of the 'clacky' buttons when I'm working on them at 2am :)

Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By Masi Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:28 am
sinik wrote:it's not really about making an instrument for "pros" or people who want to put serious work in producing music, its more about bedroom producers who want to be able to make music as quick and easy as possible without spending cash on equipment or deal with learning audio and stuff like that.

I'd call myself a bedroom producer in the sense that I'm amateur and have no intentions on making money with my music. The reason I bought the MPC One was simply becaue it is the cheaper than all other hardware sequencers and has no ridicluous limits to 8 tracks. Only recently other vendors introduced gear with 16 tracks.

As I'm not a pro I don't want to spend too much money on my hobby. What is so bad about that?
Do you claim that bedroom producers - I understant the term as an alias for amatuer - don't dedicate time end energy into their works? Or did you mean that Akai is now aiming on the quick-results users (pro or not)?

Sidenote: Casual listeners don't care about the production process and the expenses made on gear. They happly dance to a tune created by an AI worth a few bucks spent for the subscription.

Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By sinik Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:35 am
MPC-Tutor wrote:I have several Elektron machines, absolutely love using them, and not a touchscreen in sight. My wife however is not a fan of the 'clacky' buttons when I'm working on them at 2am :)


all for some clacky buttons, lol.

i love the ambition of making the UI on those tiny screens looking incredible and second to none – they really pushed the boundries on that aspect. thats what i would call real inovation. havent seen something like this with akai or NI in a long time.

Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By sinik Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:40 am
Masi wrote:As I'm not a pro I don't want to spend too much money on my hobby. What is so bad about that?
Do you claim that bedroom producers - I understant the term as an alias for amatuer - don't dedicate time end energy into their works? Or did you mean that Akai is now aiming on the quick-results users (pro or not)?


absolutelty nothing bad about you being a bedroom producer for a hobby and having fun exploring!

what i meant was more that akai was a company for "pro users". they are now having a different audience, hence they are not focused on "pro" instruments anymore. so if you are a pro user (doesnt have to do with making money of music, could be just passion for the art), you are kind of be left in the dust with the current direction they are heading.

Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By Straker Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:32 pm
sinik wrote:
Masi wrote:As I'm not a pro I don't want to spend too much money on my hobby. What is so bad about that?
Do you claim that bedroom producers - I understant the term as an alias for amatuer - don't dedicate time end energy into their works? Or did you mean that Akai is now aiming on the quick-results users (pro or not)?


absolutelty nothing bad about you being a bedroom producer for a hobby and having fun exploring!

what i meant was more that akai was a company for "pro users". they are now having a different audience, hence they are not focused on "pro" instruments anymore. so if you are a pro user (doesnt have to do with making money of music, could be just passion for the art), you are kind of be left in the dust with the current direction they are heading.

Here we go.
Thanks.
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Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By Lampdog Fri Jan 31, 2025 1:38 pm
sinik wrote:it sure is good for akai as a business. but they are moving away from the core mpc workflow. some will like it, some will not like it. for me, it lost its appeal as a "classic groovebox sampler". its more like operating an ipad with some physical knobs and pads.

My VERY first thoughts were, “they borrowed from Beatmaker 3”.
Love Beatmaker 3 btw, but, I wasn’t expecting in to make a small appearance in my mpc.

Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By glide Fri Jan 31, 2025 3:25 pm
Monotremata wrote:
LivePsy wrote:I'm still waiting for some bug fixes for the 5000, sit down and wait your turn guys


I think there are some 4K owners still waiting for some too. :lol:



Not a bug in a ballistic range ... the 4k is one of the most solid machines I've ever used .. Can't remember a crash or a problem since 1.07 15 years ago .. and I have driven that thing to the max with 60+ tracks, layers upon layers of sounds, prioritizing poly for note sound drop-outs, smoke coming out from the back, LCD response getting sluggish, machine shaking, screws rattling, dogs in the neighborhood howling and some sweaty ''back to the future'' old guy breaking through the studio door in a lab coat with aviator style motorcycle goggles yelling: They are coming !!!..

And you know what: the 4k doesn't skip a millisecond out of sync nor does it interrupt or degrade the audio spitting from the outputs ever !!! ... Its just solid :smoker:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________


I do take my hats off to how far Akai has taken the new MPC range, but the ping pong Touch screen figure skating the workflow is a mess if you ask me ..

***UI Design
Sure; argue it's a full-blown DAW inow ..But the one encoder Polyend Tracker has way better UI flow vs live/ONE ... and the X with its hands swinging in the air workflow isn't a great design either, the Force is at an elephant paste; bouncing back and forth from menus and It's got how many pads?/ possibilities for shift+pad direct access to menus? ..

****Sound
Its too ''ITB'' the dithering seams to lack some sort of depth of resolution, noticeable in FX like: Freeze (MI clouds algorithm) > muddy and harsh, reverbs lack depth/details, Compare the standard Delay with something like Tal sampler delay and it is: moon vs sun difference.
Not saying they sound bad .. I've heard incredible (like studio grade) production MPC only tracks .. so it's always the talent behind the machine.. But generally speaking I would love for Akai to improve the fidelity/ upgrade the output /summing stage..

***Flow
Touch Screen flow is ok in theory but a ''studio centerpiece'' that you master like a samurai sword; means tens upon thousands of hours .. and all those back and forth or soft menu tabs add up to millions of pushes.. and in 2025 with all the inexpensive tech and CPU powers we should be able /with easy'' to come up with design that are physically friendly, with tactical ''hand /finger memory'' that makes production use a zen lie state wheras your psyche becomes one with the machine
Hopefully the new generation will use grid based multicolor pads as the center to touch and edit notes on a grid rather than bouncing on the Touch Screen like a lap dancer late on rent every session ...

#two pushes max to most used functions (not windows> actual ''now editing parameter'' materiality) access

****Audio
ADAT for multiouts (InMusic you own the licencing /tech ) vs the endless chase of crackling class compliant hardware) and throw some VCAs on the outs> that can smoothly saturate at max< (you now own Moog FFS) . VCAs impact the sound greatly, making the unit sound more real vs that CPU ITB sound

***Step Sequencing
the Scandinavians are mastering this, both Electrons and TE + some Danish companies are doing masterful things and this is a huge market; could even say it rivals the HiHop base that is often so linked to the MPC range + stepFX pushes what is possible musically.


***Sampling engine
Would also love to see some synthetic modules inside the mod matrix, the ability to use phase modulators between layers, ring or sync generators between layers, refolding and other modular like tools that may be set to be triggered independently (from selected pads) .. But all this doesn't mean anything unless this all has outstanding sound..

To Sumup

4 Focus points of the next generation HW

* UI /zen state workflow
* Sound /upgraded output VCA
* Step sequencing /physically touching notes
* Sampling integrated with synthesis




______________________________________________________

Its 2025 people .. We are now in the future .. The up-and-coming 5th generation of groove boxes is going to blow away everything that became before.


Team Akai/Air May the >Future< Force be with you ... :smoker:

Re: I have to give it to Akai, they are pushing things forwa

By machinesworking Fri Jan 31, 2025 5:26 pm
I think it's a mixed bag for sure that they're going with a more complex editable Arranger screen. I use Digital Performer on the Mac here and it's the only DAW I know of that has the ability to do the whole track separate from program thing the MPC does, but it has always had limitations on track automation placed on the plugins that are in a virtual rack not attached to the track they're controlled by, only MIDI automation. Since MPC3 came out I've wondered if it's some virtual space issue with coding that amkes this so? because it's been decades and DP has never solved that plugin/track automation issue, and we see the MPC getting an much more editable arranger, but losing programs separate from tracks, it seems like there's a trad off there?

For me personally the MPC3 was a huge bust up until the latest update, because flatly I did not trust that they would listen and bring time signatures back, it's not like Maschine, Circuit, XO etc. aren't out there being dumb boxes with only 4/4 or anything.

On the lines of the title though three cheers for Akai for listening, and the note off bug is on the list of fixes too so. :worthy: It's always possible that they go hybrid with Programs, and allow for the old workflow in a future update, writing emails I believe was helpful for time signatures, I mean it mentions the user requests in the notes for the MPC3.
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