MPC-ONE (A/D, D/A Convertors sound quality)

IMO, the best sounding MPC I would say is the Renaissance (it has no sound!!!). The Rennasance was so dope, I wish Akai would come out with a Ren Mark 2. I’m not really feeling the MPC studio and the Ren One is too outdated for me to consider in 2022. The MPC X is too big and bulky for my desktop workspace, and as you all know I hate the Live and One so those are definitely not under consideration. I really wish there was a perfect MPC on the market I could buy. I used the own the MPC 60ii, 2000, and 4000 but I sold them all. I think Im going to buy the MPC 61 key if AKAI doesn’t screw if you. A 37 Key version of the MPC Key would be a dream.

the mpc one has a smearing at 100Hz which affects drums the most (ironically). there is a plastification in that range of plosive sounds that really grates the ears at repetition. some drum sounds escape this effect but i would say more than half do not. aside from a niche somewhat dusty/cheapening of that range being desirable in some applications, it is not a good thing especially when compared to the mpc being run via usb and an apogee for example (see attached video)

for example i recently pitched the hydra drum break down and it sounded really bad. it's hard to describe what is going on but it almost causes instant ear fatigue due the smearing/eq curve at that 100Hz and above range. i will be getting an apogee duet to replace the converters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOj0P7A2jao

interestingly, the early akai force used AKM converters, but a later board revision changed to TI.. (I have repaired a couple for akai force's recently and was surprised to find different converters on one than the other!) - I do have a feeling my akai one plus sounds significantly inferior to my key37 and force (with AKM converters) - hardly used the force with TI so can't make comment on that - but there could be a fault with my one+ - intending to do some analysis/measurements to confirm my suspicions...

NearTao wrote:Is it time for another "guess which MPC this was recorded on" vote?

Buy the most expensive one then put the lowest quality vintage filter on the outputs. Problem solved.

TonyO. wrote:I’ll take your word for it that an instrument case material does not have any affect on the sound. As I stated before, I’m not a sound engineer or instrument designer, so I can’t speak on that. However, my complaints about the converters on the MPC Live and MPC One have nothing to do with placebo affect. I suspect the AD converters on those two machines are probably of lesser quality than the MPC X and some of the other models. The AD conversion on the MPC X sounds good to me. I don’t know for sure but I doubt the X uses the same converters are the Love and One. These cheap budget MPCs sound like crap to me. I’m saying this not to be a troll, but because I hope Akai sees my complaint and steps up their game with regards to build quality of future MPCs. The Old Akai and Numark are not created equal for the young producers who think all MPCs by default will sound great. Every time I listen to music made on the MPC Live and MPC one, the music sounds smeared and muffled to me. It sounds like the instruments have no separation. There is a lack of clarity.

There is a difference, I hear clarity coming out of the MPX X, but the One and Live are in my opinion the worst sounding MPCs I ever heard. Definitely not placebo effect! Anyone trying to take a shot at me saying my opinion is due to placebo affect or lack of talent of skill, this is not the case. I can clearly hear the difference on how most of the different MPCs sound. I’m not talking about comparing a short clip like a one shot kick between different MPCs. If you play me an 8 bar loop AB comparison played on the MPC 60, 2000, 3000, 4000, 2500 (which sounds like shitty too); comparing those to the Live and One, I can pick out probably with 99 percent accuracy which MPC was playing the 8 bar sample.

All the MPC are distinguishable by a unique characteristic of the sound engine, AD converters, and any other instrument build components affecting sound. I’m pretty sure I am not the only person in the world who does not like the way the MPC One and Live converters sound. Just as an example, I recently purchased a Roland SP 404 SX which is a small portable and inexpensive sampler. The sound coming out of the SP404 SX in my opinion sounds warm, lush, fat, I could hear clarity and separation between the instruments, and the music coming out of the 404 doesn’t sound smeared and two dimensional. Not sure if it is solely due to the AD conversion or something else, but the 404 sounds worlds better than the Live and One.

I’ve owned dozens of samplers and tons of audio gear all of which impart their own unique sonic signature and artifacts onto the audio. I think the MPC Live and One are two of the worst sounding music making instruments I’ve ever heard. The audio coming out of those machines sound smeared, muffled, muddy, under water-sounding, flat, two dimensional, and dry. Just my opinion. I literally purchased an MPC One because I liked the small form factor but returned it to Sweetwater the same day it arrived on my doorstep. Peace out everyone.

I have the Live II and ONE + and the sound is pretty great. I can't see how even if this is real how it could be a real issue -- they are MORE than good enough for live audio/performance or for creative/composing work, and anything for release is going to be stemmed in the box (whether stand alone or controller) to be exported to somewhere else to final mix/master. The only impact here is in creative decisions made due to monitoring (which can be categorised under 'character') as you're going to get surgical in the final mix/master environment anyway.

Just enjoy your nicely integrated musical interfaces, make cool music and worry about the minutia at the final mi/master (or pay someone else to do it -- my option of choice when I can afford it).

a machine this powerful for 700 dollars without quality converters is ok since they gave us the option to replace the converters via usb

an apogee duet 3 costs the same as an mpc one and at that price together it's still a good value

haze3000 wrote:a machine this powerful for 700 dollars without quality converters is ok since they gave us the option to replace the converters via usb

an apogee duet 3 costs the same as an mpc one and at that price together it's still a good value

Agreed

haze3000 wrote:the mpc one has a smearing at 100Hz which affects drums the most (ironically). there is a plastification in that range of plosive sounds that really grates the ears at repetition. some drum sounds escape this effect but i would say more than half do not. aside from a niche somewhat dusty/cheapening of that range being desirable in some applications, it is not a good thing especially when compared to the mpc being run via usb and an apogee for example (see attached video)

for example i recently pitched the hydra drum break down and it sounded really bad. it's hard to describe what is going on but it almost causes instant ear fatigue due the smearing/eq curve at that 100Hz and above range. i will be getting an apogee duet to replace the converters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOj0P7A2jao

Thinking about this -- can't we compensate the difference for monitoring by taking noise and comparing it to the same noise resampled through the MPC? Get the exact difference and add some very subtle EQ to model/compensate for the difference on the MPC outputs? Should reduce monitoring impact on creative decisions or for live sound.

Oscar South wrote:

haze3000 wrote:the mpc one has a smearing at 100Hz which affects drums the most (ironically). there is a plastification in that range of plosive sounds that really grates the ears at repetition. some drum sounds escape this effect but i would say more than half do not. aside from a niche somewhat dusty/cheapening of that range being desirable in some applications, it is not a good thing especially when compared to the mpc being run via usb and an apogee for example (see attached video)

for example i recently pitched the hydra drum break down and it sounded really bad. it's hard to describe what is going on but it almost causes instant ear fatigue due the smearing/eq curve at that 100Hz and above range. i will be getting an apogee duet to replace the converters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOj0P7A2jao

Thinking about this -- can't we compensate the difference for monitoring by taking noise and comparing it to the same noise resampled through the MPC? Get the exact difference and add some very subtle EQ to model/compensate for the difference on the MPC outputs? Should reduce monitoring impact on creative decisions or for live sound.

i don't see why not. it is ironic that the frequency that is most affected with the factory mpc one converters is the lower mids where the drums are though. on first listen to that shootout vid i posted i knew i would be upgrading the converters. IF drums are prevalent in the track then they need to sound good because it's like 3-4 minutes of repeated drum samples in a song

You can always plug in a crispier soundcard to get that frequency you're missing or just bounce your project and import it to your workstation or mixing console. It's not as important as people let on. The mpc digitally sums the audio anyways. Now the analog to digital could be an issue for a sampler.. but again just plug a better sound device.

I find it quite interesting that the sound of the XL and the One are very audible, can someone post audio examples, I found the black lion upgrade for the XL really add to the clarity, wish they did it for the ONE as I kinda concur with the term ''muddy'' it sounds very round and its almost like it has a bass boost at the outputs . But when I listen to 24/96 k from the 4k it just sounds superior very crispy and detailed nothing muddy about it ..

so I hate the thought of this downgrade.. yes as mentioned the workarounds are simple .. yet working with great sounding outs should be a standard on the MPC line (they sound good in modern comparison but all the modern (non hybirds) have a bit of an artificial ''itb'' sound to them.

Addressing some thoughts in the thread

Best way to get the Ensoinq sound on your MPC is via DP4

Ofcorse the Ren sounded best it had 3000 circuits

And I perhaps the material in casing are not an issue but current often flows though laptops that are badly designed, also improper shielding and statics from LCD if too close to outputs can apter.

For a reference I once had a synth that picked up radio stations .. so in the middle of a synth ARP line I had a man on first and second base and a home run coming into my lead line

glide wrote:Improper shielding

On most desktop PC, a cheap external USB audio interfaces is perceptibly less noisy than the onboard one. But then, I haven't found the MPC One to be noisier than the audio interfaces I used it with. If I did, my experience with Roland gear would have me first check the quality of the power supply - it makes a world of difference there. Is the OP using a compatible power supply from a manufacturer other than Akai ?

Truth be told the convertors are just a small part of the sound, how the internal calculation is handled even down to what chips and OS plays a significantly higher role.

The New MPC sound bigger & fuller vs Electrons, Polyends and have more bass than NI M+ and MC707.. This leads me to think that there might be a slight EQ curve at the outs, in reference when you start pitching sounds some frequencies seam to come out more as someone stated and the bass breaks up more easily into muffled terrain, Unlike the MC707 and NI where the bass is thinner yet has more details in the lows overall (this is much more preferred from a pro perspective)..


The old MPC had fixed Poly and everything was clocked to set voices, in the new ones the dithering and headroom needs to adjust CPU accordingly. In contrast, I think it sounds fantastic when sampling and chopping sounds that seam to be of high grade (I listen to a few sample flipping vids and in some the sound is dull and lacks top end and clarity, its hard to say what's at fault, it could be crappy preamps or EQ or some user or sample chain error) but It really sounds good when just a few elements are running, the more you add the smaller the mix goes.
This is natural (like if you only have a kick + some perc and a vocal vs a track with dozens of instruments, there is more room with less tracks)

But generally speaking I feel like the internal> pitch algos, volume of voices, filters & FX all have to bow to some sort of internal encoding threshold refrance ( correct me if Im wrong but I think it does 32bit float~? ).. Whatever it is when I listen to quality old Akai MPC only recordings vs the new line there's seam to be a night and day difference in dynamics and detail.
The dynamics are the resolution between the lowest and highest points of volume. and its almost like it's much greater on the old MPC or at least much better calibrated for a lack of a better word.


I know there are a bunch of A vs B comparisons but they hardly reveal real world practice wheras stacks of tracks, runing lots of layers and poly, tunings all over the scale, filtering, summing, envelopes behaviors etc are the real truth.. this is what will set the samplers apart> not Loop A vs Loop B


Im just saying It's so much more than the AD DA stage .., you can say that the Octatrack (which has an unfair rep) has> lesser sound in size that the MPC which is more full sounding but the Octatrack. is much more dynamic in all its calculations and really sounds like a sampler, its very dynamic ..

So what is quality may be a matter of context, but it certainly should not just be measured in> Hey mom this sounds big.

does anybody know how to get around the amp envelope opening late with one shot drum sounds? used to have this problem with a roland s-750. repeated triggering of some snares and kicks loses the transient at the beginning

Just got an Apogee Duet 2 for $130 cdn and it is quite different sounding than the factory MPC One converters. Also better sounding overall. The problem with the MPC converters is this 100Hz low-mid smearing that makes many drum and bass sounds in that range very ear fatiguing and cheapified. The kit that loads on power up in the MPC has that 808 kick that would shred my eardrums but now it is smooth, also the Apogee is more smooth and musical sounding overall.

It's like I bought a new sampler. I do the rare groove roc marciano alchemist type beats a lot now (always changes though since i been making beats since 88) and everything I sample now sounds better, which is good since the style is all about lots of repetition of otherwise unprocessed source material of the vintage records.

Also, not to brag (lol) but I picked up a discogs purchase while I was getting the Apogee and it is some rare Canadian late 70's synth funk operetta type ish that I pray Alchemist never finds because it has so much dope stuff on it he could make a whole Freddie Gibbs album with it.

Anyway, that record sounds amazing through the MPC/Apogee combo. So now I have a $1000 cutting edge MPC with $1000 converters.