Connect 2 Akai Force via midi?

How can I connect two AFs via MIDI? I tried using Ableton Link and it works fine, but when I connect other synths via USB and activate MIDI sync, one AF doesn't work in sync with the rest. Can this problem be solved?
Thank you.
I have 4 synths connected via powered hub an AF. How do I connect the other AF?

M1X0B1T wrote:I have 4 synths connected via powered hub an AF. How do I connect the other AF?

The synths can't be USB peripherals of both Force at the same time. A Force can't be USB peripheral of another Force - they are both hosts. So far, basic USB A-B rules.

To connect both Force, you then just need a MIDI cable. Also, you need to decide which device in your setup is the MIDI master... I would select the Force in the hub position - connected to Ableton, the synths and the other Force.

So, if I understand correctly, I should leave the four synths connected to the AF and then use a MIDI cable to connect the first Force to the other Force. Is that right?
Thnaks for your pacience
PS:i dont use Ableton

Maybe... There is more than one way to do it. What you haven't told us is the intended use case. I posited that you intend to sequence the synths from the hub Force... But maybe that is not what you want to do.

If you intend to sample synths to Force, you may want each synth connected to the Force that'll sample it - to keep the audio plane coherent with the control (MIDI) plane.

Sorry about misunderstanding your mention of Ableton Link for the presence of Ableton.

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:Sorry about misunderstanding your mention of Ableton Link for the presence of Ableton.

No problem...

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:Maybe... There is more than one way to do it. What you haven't told us is the intended use case. I posited that you intend to sequence the synths from the hub Force... But maybe that is not what you want to do.

I have 4 synths and 2 AFs and would like to connect and synchronize them. How can I do this?
I tried with a USB hub, but I can't connect the second AF (I tried connecting it via MIDI to the other AF, but nothing happened).
I tried with a 1-in-5-through MIDI hub using an LXR02 as the master, but nothing happened...

If you want to record any audio, then unless recent fw has changed things, you'll need to do that on the master sync Force. Pretty sure that Force/MPCs still don't record audio in slave mode (they can record midi though).

M1X0B1T wrote:

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:Sorry about misunderstanding your mention of Ableton Link for the presence of Ableton.

No problem...

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:Maybe... There is more than one way to do it. What you haven't told us is the intended use case. I posited that you intend to sequence the synths from the hub Force... But maybe that is not what you want to do.

I have 4 synths and 2 AFs and would like to connect and synchronize them. How can I do this?
I tried with a USB hub, but I can't connect the second AF (I tried connecting it via MIDI to the other AF, but nothing happened).
I tried with a 1-in-5-through MIDI hub using an LXR02 as the master, but nothing happened...

As upthread, you'll need to sync the AFs via 5-pin DIN. You'll need to check prefs/MIDI and set one to send clock and start/stop messages (master), and the other to receive (slave).

You can then still run a usb hub to sync/control the synths through midi. Could potentially go from either AF though I'd use the master as the default option.

If you are using an external audio interface, and want to record audio on a Force, that'll need to connect with the master, not the slave, Force via usb.

(If you're recording audio (with or without an interface) then that'll need to be on the master AF.)

If on the other hand you want to use another device as master (just googled LXR02 and see it's a drum machine) then you might need to connect Force 1 and 2 separately (not sure if you can daisy-chain sync between the two, never tried). But in any case, because F1&2 will both be in slave sync mode, you probably won't be able to record audio to them.

Some of the iConnectivity audio interfaces should allow using two USB host computers at the same time, AND you can even route audio between the hosts. Such as, at least in theory, two Akai Forces. BUT as we all know, nobody can guarantee which audio interfaces work with MPC/Force boxes. And since the Force doesn't run any of the iConnectivity control applications - how do you actually do it IF it works. But maybe it's worth a try?

• Use with up to 2 devices simultaneously (Mac OS / Windows / iOS / Android)
• Audio and MIDI PassThru digitally routes audio between two connected devices

https://www.thomann.de/intl/iconnectivity_audio4c.htm

If you're able to press "play" on both Forces exactly at the same time, they might in theory stay in sync even without MIDI clock sync, both Forces thinking they're the clock master?!!?! Try it and tell us how it went.

Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:Maybe... There is more than one way to do it. What you haven't told us is the intended use case. I posited that you intend to sequence the synths from the hub Force... But maybe that is not what you want to do.


As upthread, you'll need to sync the AFs via 5-pin DIN. You'll need to check prefs/MIDI and set one to send clock and start/stop messages (master), and the other to receive (slave).

You can then still run a usb hub to sync/control the synths through midi. Could potentially go from either AF though I'd use the master as the default option.

If you are using an external audio interface, and want to record audio on a Force, that'll need to connect with the master, not the slave, Force via usb.

(If you're recording audio (with or without an interface) then that'll need to be on the master AF.)

If on the other hand you want to use another device as master (just googled LXR02 and see it's a drum machine) then you might need to connect Force 1 and 2 separately (not sure if you can daisy-chain sync between the two, never tried). But in any case, because F1&2 will both be in slave sync mode, you probably won't be able to record audio to them.

There is no way to directly connect and synchronize the two AFs (At least I can't do it.)either via MIDI (even if I create a MIDI track and assign it a channel...) or via a USB hub or even direct USB. I can only do it via the Ableton Link option...

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:Some of the iConnectivity audio interfaces should allow using two USB host computers at the same time, AND you can even route audio between the hosts. Such as, at least in theory, two Akai Forces. BUT as we all know, nobody can guarantee which audio interfaces work with MPC/Force boxes. And since the Force doesn't run any of the iConnectivity control applications - how do you actually do it IF it works. But maybe it's worth a try?

• Use with up to 2 devices simultaneously (Mac OS / Windows / iOS / Android)
• Audio and MIDI PassThru digitally routes audio between two connected devices

https://www.thomann.de/intl/iconnectivity_audio4c.htm

If you're able to press "play" on both Forces exactly at the same time, they might in theory stay in sync even without MIDI clock sync, both Forces thinking they're the clock master?!!?! Try it and tell us how it went.

I could try with my cards. I have a Motu M2 and a Behringer UMC404HD, but I don't know how to do it. Do I have to use the MIDI in and out ports? It's something I've never done before.

I've just tested this with a Force and MPC 1st gen (both running 3.6, so the same as two Forces), and it definitely works.

Connection: Force midi din out (type A adapter), to MPC in 1.

Force is master.
Force settings:
Midi/sync
Output ports FORCE =sync
sync send =Midi clock
Send MMC = ticked

MPC prefs:
Sync receive = clock
Receive mmc =ticked

Works exactly as it should! I've not tested it beyond this but as I say, I'd imagine I could only record audio on the master (Force, in my case).

Good luck!

The iConnectivity boxes are sound cards i.e. audio interfaces that can be connected to two host computers at the same time.

If the two Forces are connected to the same iConnectivity box, and they have the exact same tempo, and they calculate the length of their "beat" units correctly, they should stay relatively locked without any tempo drift forever. The only problem is, how to start playback at the same instant. In theory at least.

The same could be done with two separate audio interfaces that are audio-clock-synced to the same word clock.

Would just MMC transport control be enough, without MIDI Clock?

This theoretical speculation is based on the assumption that the sequencers on the two Forces are the same and "sample-accurate".

Zack Zerox wrote:I've just tested this with a Force and MPC 1st gen (both running 3.6, so the same as two Forces), and it definitely works.

Connection: Force midi din out (type A adapter), to MPC in 1.

Force is master.
Force settings:
Midi/sync
Output ports FORCE =sync
sync send =Midi clock
Send MMC = ticked

MPC prefs:
Sync receive = clock
Receive mmc =ticked

Works exactly as it should! I've not tested it beyond this but as I say, I'd imagine I could only record audio on the master (Force, in my case).

Good luck!

I bought the cable, connected it, and it is recognized by the AF Master, but no sound comes out.... In my opinion, the problem is because AF cannot change the master MIDI channel, you can change only on track

HouseWithoutMouse wrote:The iConnectivity boxes are sound cards i.e. audio interfaces that can be connected to two host computers at the same time.

If the two Forces are connected to the same iConnectivity box, and they have the exact same tempo, and they calculate the length of their "beat" units correctly, they should stay relatively locked without any tempo drift forever. The only problem is, how to start playback at the same instant. In theory at least.

The same could be done with two separate audio interfaces that are audio-clock-synced to the same word clock.

Would just MMC transport control be enough, without MIDI Clock?

This theoretical speculation is based on the assumption that the sequencers on the two Forces are the same and "sample-accurate".

I'll sell it and get a drum machine like elektron Rytm mk1

M1X0B1T wrote:I bought the cable, connected it, and it is recognized by the AF Master, but no sound comes out.... In my opinion, the problem is because AF cannot change the master MIDI channel, you can change only on track

I might've misunderstood what you're trying to do. I was only testing whether you could sync the machines, which you can.

But I think you're talking about sending midi note messages from one to another. So Force 1 is the sequencer and Force 2 is the sound module, yes? I've not tried that, but if that's what it is you're trying to do (?), I'll give it a go.

Zack Zerox wrote:

M1X0B1T wrote:I bought the cable, connected it, and it is recognized by the AF Master, but no sound comes out.... In my opinion, the problem is because AF cannot change the master MIDI channel, you can change only on track

I might've misunderstood what you're trying to do. I was only testing whether you could sync the machines, which you can.

But I think you're talking about sending midi note messages from one to another. So Force 1 is the sequencer and Force 2 is the sound module, yes? I've not tried that, but if that's what it is you're trying to do (?), I'll give it a go.

That's right. I connected 1 drum machine and 2 synths to an AF via USBHub, and when I start the drum machine, everything else starts up in sync, and I would like to connect the other AF... I connected it as you said, it is recognized by the master AF, but when I start the drum machine, everything starts up except the second AF.

There's going to be a setting somewhere that's the problem.

I just used a TR-6S as master (you're using your drum machine as master clock & transport, yes?).

Using MIDI DIN, I can go TR > MPC > Force and sync both machines to the drum machine (clock and start/stop). It works the other way obviously (TR > Force > MPC)

With the TR connected to the Force via USB hub, it still works. I send MIDI DIN from the Force's Thru port to the MPC, and they both stop/start in sync with the drum machine.

Then, I set up a MIDI track on the Force and connect a second MIDI cable to the MPC (from the Out port), and I can play say a plugin track on the MPC from the Force. Works fine.

I'm not sure what's happening in your setup that's getting in the way, but what you're describing shouldn't be a problem. Again: good luck!