How to prevent MIDI Loops...

Hi Guys!

I want to set up my MPC4k so that my masterkeyboard goes in MIDI-IN1 and the MIDI output of my synths go into MIDI-IN2. This mainly for recording Arpeggios and CC-data. However, when I do that, the MIDI coming from the synth to MIDI-IN2 goes directly to the MIDI-OUT of the synth in question (is this making sence...? ). This creates a MIDI loop causing the synth to react to it's own output. Although sometimes very interesting, not very musical!
My question: is there a way to play my masterkeyboard, and record the MIDI output of my synth, without creating this loop? I tried playing with the MIDI-routing page (MIDI-IN2 --> SEQ or SAMPLER B), but when sending it to SEQ it causes the loop, and when sending to SAMPLER B I can't seem to record the MIDI-input...

Any suggestions...?? Please??

Greets,
Roy
(the Netherlands)

If you are having a problem with over lapping and the sound cutting its self of try setting the number of voices on your synth to a higher number value. if that not it move the cursor over the duration fied hit open and reduce the amont of lagg in the are where need it or over the whole synth lenth.

Thanks for your respons!

My problem, however, is not that my synth can not handle it's input, my problem is that the MPC transmits the MIDI-OUT of the synth to the MIDI-IN of the synth. This causes the synth to respond to it's own output, which gives very freaky results with arpeggiator patterns reacting on arpeggiator patterns reacting on arpeggiator patterns etc etc. The end result is not the pattern I wanted to record in the first place...
I consider myself very lucky that the synth hasn't burned up yet

All I want to do is: record MIDI-IN2 in the sequencer, but not send the MIDI-IN2 data to the MIDI-OUT's...

discribe you fisical route set up midi wise the whole layout.

here's a picture:


I hope this clarifies things...

ok why do you have the midi out of synth going into the midi in2 of the mpc?? you dont need to do that at all...take that cable out

because I want to record the MIDI-OUT of the synth: the synth sends the arpeggiator pattern to the MIDI-OUT, and I want to use that pattern for another synth, so I need to record it on the MPC.

does the synth have is own sequencer built in to it?

I don't see where you are going with this, but no it doesn't... just an arpeggiator...

I sse what you are tring to do unfortuetly To my knowledge the mpc is not capable of recording ARPs from other sources it can however create ARP patterns via Q-Ling Sequence

AWW_NAWW wrote:I sse what you are tring to do unfortuetly To my knowledge the mpc is not capable of recording ARPs from other sources it can however create ARP patterns via Q-Ling Sequence

hy lacertus - hy aww ...

sorry aww to disagree ... i did it sometime - somehow ... but not 100 % sure now how i did it ... its quite a while ago - so i m more guessing now - besides that i m far away from my gear so i can't really check atm ... so anyone please correct me if i m wrong ....

first off ... what kind of synth are you using?

if i remember correctly one thing you gotta do is to set the synth to transmit arpeggiator events ... its called arpeggend or so - set it to on ...

then you gotta avoid midilooping ...

one way which is not perfect but worx is to plug off the midi out from your mpc to the midi in synth ... (asuming you gotta synth with keys - if you gotta a separate keyboard to trigger your module i guess best is to plug keyboard to module to mpc ... ) anyways ... if its a santh with keys just let the midicable from synth to 4k plugged ... set your sequencer to record the ish - also set tc to off to avoid quantizing of the arpeggiator ... once the sequence is running and set to overdub press a pad on your synth ... (most times its also more conveniant to set loop on the mpc to off) ... once everythin you want has been recorded highlight all recorded events and move them together to your desired position - for example 001.01.000 ...

it should also work if you leave everything midiwise plugged and whilst recordin you sent your arpeggiator events temporarilly to any other out as the one where the synth is plugged onto ... you say you need the events for other sounds anyways ... should work too ...

besides that i think to remember that there has been an option ... somethin called like ... "wait for midi trigger" or so - isn't it? i mean not for the sampler - for the sequence ... really not sure on thisone atm and where it would be but again i ain't in front of my 4k atm ... anyone else?

... and what about local on and off on you synth ... also check how those affects the way things get triggered ... just trying to imagine here now ... could be that within your synth arp and synth data are separated and you could find a way to record things easily via thisone ... dunno thisone is really just in case everythin else fukks up ...

hope somethin worx our for ya ...

Like Altopiano said turn the local off in your synth as this is standard midi routing. If I understand your problem you are using your keyboard as a controller tand sound module is played the sounds and the 4k as the sequencer. Your keyboard send out notes the mpc records on its tracks and the infomation is send out the notes to trigger the sounds in your sound module. You don`t need your sound modules sequencer triggering notes too cuz it can cause double notes. So it is always necessary to turn off local control off in your sound module. Usually go to your sound module Global setting and set making sure the receive channel is the same as the send on the 4k and local control is off for the sound module`s sequencer. Check out Midi Basics by Paul White or the Synths manual.

hy blue haze ...

sorry - i m disagreeing again ... the way you described is ok for ordinary midi playin and worx great ...

however he wants to record the arp from his synth to use the synths arp for other stuff ... and then local off imo only helps if the arp data is transmitted side by side with the messages sent out by the keys (which would then go into say midi in I) which would then not cause a midi loop if he sents it out say over out a to his module which again could be plugged onto midi in II to be ready for recordin cc's... not sure wheter his or any synth worx like this ... just tryin to help findin a more convenient way here ... btw: its time to try it out myself again but i can't atm ...

however method 1 and 2 should work both but are a bit of a pain in the arse ... coz you gotta highlight all recorded note events and move em all together ... anyways i would set local on for method 1 and for method 2 it doesn't really matter - however i would set it up to local off then ...

i m less sure on method 3 now with the "wait for midi trigger" thing - which would be ideal for that ... but then again ... can't check it since i m too far away fron my 4k right now ... anyone else can check this?

Altopiano wrote:hy blue haze ...

sorry - i m disagreeing again ... the way you described is ok for ordinary midi playin and worx great ...

however he wants to record the arp from his synth to use the synths arp for other stuff ... and then local off imo only helps if the arp data is transmitted side by side with the messages sent out by the keys (which would then go into say midi in I) which would then not cause a midi loop if he sents it out say over out a to his module which again could be plugged onto midi in II to be ready for recordin cc's... not sure wheter his or any synth worx like this ... just tryin to help findin a more convenient way here ... btw: its time to try it out myself again but i can't atm ...

however method 1 and 2 should work both but are a bit of a pain in the arse ... coz you gotta highlight all recorded note events and move em all together ... anyways i would set local on for method 1 and for method 2 it doesn't really matter - however i would set it up to local off then ...

i m less sure on method 3 now with the "wait for midi trigger" thing - which would be ideal for that ... but then again ... can't check it since i m too far away fron my 4k right now ... anyone else can check this?

It cool man I didn`t think of that mmm. Does that mean that he should record in only the midi notes and switch off local control on the 4k in the midi page/filter page/control number 122-local control? I don`t know if it will work but it is my guess. If it is a miss that`s ok I learn something new and a function I haven`t try yet. Altopiano you and AWW-NAWW got this thing on lock.

Hi guys!

Thanks for your answers!
Still I don't believe I've made myself clear... Time for a little name calling:
I use a Roland A80 master keyboard, hence no synth engine, only MIDI data... I have no synths with a keyboard, only rack-mounted modules (my 'studio' is 2x2meters). The synth in this case is the Roland Fantom XR. It has a really nice arpeggiator. However, I know the arpeggio would sound better when played on another synth, my Nord Modular. So my idea is to record the arpeggiator MIDI-data from the Fantom XR to the MPC, so I can play it back to the Modular. I have a pattern selected and want to play the notes on my A80, send this to the Fantom XR, and record the MIDI-OUT of the XR. That's it... not too difficult I thought... However, this is MIDI-loop wonderland! The MPC just loops the XR's MIDI-OUT to the XR's MIDI-IN!
I know a few was around this problem, my main one is just recording the A80 notes to the MPC (to an empty MIDI-OUT), then playing them back to the XR, and recording the MIDI-OUT of the XR to the MPC. This works, but it's not very spontaneous, and is too calculated for my taste... I would like to make is a one-step process in stead of a two-step process.

To me it seems like I only need the MPC to not send through the MIDI received on IN2 (XR's MIDI-OUT) to the XR's MIDI-IN, but still record it on the sequencer... Can this happen?