Recording Vocals

I'm having a lot of trouble recording vocals... I've tried for a long time and a lot fo things,but it's definitely the most significant thing lacking in my production...

I get a clean signal going into my computer... Got my MXL 990 hooked into my Presonus Blue Tube Pre-Amp...

Everythings going good so far... Now on to my compressor (heres where I'm havin trouble)...

My dbx 266XL compressor is where I try and compress... But I can't seem to get good results with it.... Either I feel like it's overcompressed or not compressed at all... So I figure that maybe it's because it's a cheap compressor...

So basically I started using the dbx as a limiter so that the vocals don't clip on the way in... Which does improve the quality of my signal and prevent clipping...

Then I go into my computer and EQ the vocals and try to compress... I EQ the bottom end out to thin out the vocals because it feels like the vocals are overpowering the beat and because my mic has no Low End Roll Off... The vocals still seem to overpower the beat they feel wider than the beat and too thick... But if I EQ too much they feel like they're missing something...

As far as compressing in the computer... I have no better luck there... I still am having issues compressing much like in the dbx 266XL...

I know it's me thats messing this sh*t up, but can any of y'all give some good tips...

As an example the hardest voice to work with is my brother... He doesn't have a ton of bass to his voice and I'm tryin to make his vocals seem more aggressive to counter-act that...

Any help is greatly appreciated...

if you could send me an example of what it sounds like, i could probably help you out.

also what pc programs are you working with?
[email protected]

I just got a Mac so right now I'm using Logic Express 7... Tryin to get Waves Plug-Ins... Actually got em, but tryin to Authenticate them...

I'll upload an example later...

Thanks for the reply...

Yo Matt, interesting how you are having 'problems', but sounds like you got the idea right, mang. I mean, that mic is cheap, and the bluetube renders 'undesireable results' as you are not happy with it. But really, your doing what you should be doing. That's a good idea, to use the DBX as a soft limiter so that it doesn't squash too much, but keeps some heat on it and keeps it in line during the performance.

Only things I can think of are these: Are you compressing and or eqing with the computer during tracking or afterwords? It can still work. I would just be even more sparing than when using harware to compress to tape,
as it'll distort easier (and with worse results) than hardware can.

Good idea for the bass rolloff man. matter of fact, you can do that to every single track. Some cats would call me sacreligious, but:
Unless it's a male singing Baritone, you could stand to roll off everything below 100hz on all vox tracks, and all instrument tracks that are not bass oriented. Even the bass tracks, kick, bassline, etc (except for maybe 808s, etc) can stand a rolloff of everything below 40HZ.

Now you have more headroom in the overall track, and more sonic space in the frequency spectrum as well.

Here's two things you could try for compressing vocals after getting a good level to tape. Say u using plugz, and you wanna punchy, sibilant tone. Do your bass rolloff thang, then set compressor to the fastest attack and release times possible. I like to start with a 3:1 ratio, and maybe end up at a 4:1, but around there. Try it soloed, so you can get the best sound on it's own. Then drop the threshold in until you like the result, and start equing. Then bring everything else in, and continue to adjust threshold and gain until you can hear it sit nice in the Mix. Another thing is, try NOT to hit gain stages of faders, processessors, eqs and sofware plugz more than one time per track. Like, if you compress to tape, don't use the same compressor for that track during mixing. Even with high end components, reprocessing with the same thing can likely cause small phase cancelations and anomalies. Alot of times they are not apparrent. Then when you bump up some part of it's eq, or go master your mix, you realize some tracks have become lifeless and crappy. Phase incongruencies are a problem that can go unnoticed easily, and they can drop your headroom and or bandwidth depending on what type and how severe. You can eliminate other problems like this by making sure you have balanced, high quality cables at all stages, where applicable. Also, if you running 25+ feet of crap-a$$ microphone cable, you will notice a difference if you switch to thick, well sheilded, high quality cable.
That's all that comes to mind.

Never used Logic 7 w/ plugz, but if you can get your hands on the Fairchild 660, that's the best software compressor I've ever used for vocals, period. And I have rennaisance everything and bombfactory everything, etc. Try it out if you can.

Thanks pro... It feels good to hear that I'm at least doing the right thing or rather going about it the right way...

I will take into account a lot of your tips... I already started remixing his vocals and I'm getting slightly better results...

Once again thanks for the help... Big Up...

No doubt, keep it crackin...

Yo man you tips helped a lot... I mean I still gotta play with it but already I'm seein results...

Now as far as compression... Is there any range I should be shooting for as far as Gain Reduction... Cause right now it seems to sound alright in the mix, but it looks overcompressed cause the gain reduction is lik 20 dB which seems too high...

Like I said it sounds alright in the mix, but when I solo it it sounds a little overcompressed...

Also, regarding EQ are there any frequencies I should look out for... Right now I'm having trouble wiith the Sibilance in my bro's voice... It's that damn mic pre... I'm tryin to de-ess, but finding it hard to do so...

Once again thanks for the help man...

If the signal is very hot, which it should be, then you will won't have to turn the knob very far for the compressor to kick in as hard as it should.
But yeah I get the same thing. I'm feeling: why am I cranking this thing
just to make it work. But it's really about how it sounds, man if it sounds good, go -30db who cares, right? One thing that I always seem to do, which gives me as good as I've been able to get so far with vocals, is
basically turn any compression off to start. Like, one step away from bypass. Gain reduction knob all the way out, not effecting the signal, and ration left on default 1:1, not effecting the signal. Then I crank the input or gain knob until the vocal is occasionally peaking. Then I switch the ratio to 3:1 and begin adjusting gain reduction until it's not peaking. If I end up turning the input down, I make sure I give it more gain reduction, to kick in at that lower level, and more output gain. But that's for tracking. When I mix, I like to do the same two steps, then crank the input to the compressor until anywhere between 25%-75% of the track is peaking, and then apply a 3:1, increasing the amount of compression until it 1) stops peaking, and then usually more until b) I like where it sits. You mentioned it not sounding good when you solo. In my eyes, it's not important in the long run, but I do most of my vocal mixing with the actual vocal track soloed. Like, lemme get this thing to where, if it were an accapella, it would be fantastic to listen to. That's how I try to get tone and punch for a vocal, and then drop it back into the mix is the next step. Also, I like to squash alot of sh!t personally, but to keep from killing it, I might back off a bit, leaving just a hint of that feeling for me like: it still sticks out a little too far, even when I turn the vocal down. Then I give it just a touch or reverb.

As far as frequency, I rarely use a D-esser. They seem to all be focused on reducing the sibilant frequencies around 7K. Well, that's fine, but 7K and stuff around it also puts some of the sheen and the high end grit on a hip-hop vocal. So, instead, I might reduce 7K with a tight an eq, putting a tight Q around it, so I don't cut anything else, then drop it like 4-6db. Other frequencies that will get you w/ vox tracks: anything below 80db.
Kill it, you don't need it. People disagree, but sometimes I'll roll off anything below 150hz. Of course, everything depends on the artists voice.
400HZ is that 'boxy' frequency, the one that can feed back in the low mids at a live gig. It tends to muffle, so I check that out and might use a medium sized q and cut a few db. Super highs are no good if it's too sibilant either. You just gotta experiment, boost rediculously, then sweep to a frequency that anoys you, is muffley, is earpiercing, whatever, dropit back to where you started and give it a little cut.

won't say my vocals are the greatest, but these tequniques help me get a pretty good sound out of less than top of the line gear, if you dig what I'm saying...

Yea I started experimenting... I mean I'm not expecting super studio quality vocals, but I have been havin trouble recently...

Your tips gave me a good point to start from.... I've gone back and re-mixed all my recent tracks and got some awesome results...

I actually found that using a de-esser on 4550 Hz cuts out some obtrusive frequencies in my mix... Probably due to my pre-amp or the Frequency response or my mic...

I've got the vocals to the point where I can solo them now and they sound pretty much like the A Capellas I hear on hip-hop 12" singles...

So I'm satisfied for the time being...

I hope some other people read this thread and get some useful help from it cause I know I did...

Thanks to trupro for all the help and tanamo for responding...

Big up fam...

pause for commercial interuption.....

compression is not a necessary tool in mixing.

listen to any of hi tek's ish.......no compression, big dynamic range, he lets things breathe


sorry, now back to the regularly scheduled program

ps that 266 aint a good soundin piece.....a huge step down from the 160x, dbx used cheaper parts on the 266 and it shows

PS I know thats why I said I use it as limiter and do the real compression in a DAW.... Software compression may be the best, but it's better results than I can get from the 266...

Hi-Tek also works along side the likes of Dre and is an engineer as well and works in huge studios mixing down his sh*t... Anything else you wanna point out that he does...

he refuses to track into digital (ie no computers)
only uses tape

(at least thats what he claimed in an interview from a few years back)

That's some other ish that's making his sound so lush. If you are going thru expensive solid-state circuitry to analog tape machines, you could use no compression or efx and blow away a $15,000 ProTools rig, easliy.
That's my view on it. At that point it has to do with the quality of the mic, your placement of it on the artist, and the preamp it is running thru. In Matts case, and most of ours', such luxuries are not available, so we are talking about how to improve the quality of the vox tracks with compression and eq.

Eq problably but Compression is not always necessary

its extremely over used and abused
over use takes away dramatic performance and can flatten the emotion of a song....imho