MPC-60 vs SP1200

Q: Are you guys saying that a 16th note swing at 95 bpm DOESN'T sound the same as an 8th note swing at 190 bpm?

A: No, swung 16ths at 95bpm and swung 8th notes at 190bpm are the SAME thing.

Q:Can you guys explain what was the disagreement? Thanks a lot for all this info. It's great to be able to read it before I make up my mind....

A: Basically, the disagreement is insignificant. We're all here sharing info just trying to learn and get to the bottom of things.


In short, the issue is that the Swing functions on the MPC and the SP work two different ways. On the MPC, the Swing effects every second 16th note....and on the SP, the Swing effects every second 8th note. So in order for the SP to work like the MPC, you gotta double the tempo, and in turn double your sequence/segment length. It is necessary to do this in order to use the Swing function on a swung hiphop type beat (aka halftime shuffle.)


Hey LO-FI,
S'all good, man. That's why this forum is here. I get reminded that the SP has reverse...and you realize the SP swing differs from the MPC. Build.


By the way, you said you ALWAYS run the SP at double tempo. I'm curious, do you do that just to get a higher sequencer resolution?

The SP is like that due to the technology used.
The SP (a 1200 is still 90% of the 12 with a few improvements) uses the Z-80 CPU (aka Commodore C64) while the 60 used the 80186 (aka the old DOS machines).
While the 80186 is a dinosaur by todays standards it still has more capability and faster speeds than the Z-80.
The math on the 60 is just more capapable or maybe accurate would be a better term.
One of the first things a SP user should notice when using a MPC is that doubling the speed doesn't have the same advantage on the MPC that it does on the SP.
On the SP running double time is the only way to keep the unit from marching like a foot soldier.

iMack, I just don't think you should compare the SP to the 60, they are just so different.
Unlike when you compare the various MPC's, they have similar designs and features etc, while the SP is just a different type of machine.
The SP isn't really into playing well with others like the MPC's are.
To me the interfaces take your mind in 2 totally different directions.
Examples
If I program the SP or Emax I stand up.
If I program the XL I sit down.
If I program the 60 I sit down but stand up if I want the track to bounce.
If I program the ASR I sit down.
If I program the ESI I sit down.
If I program the S-900 or S-950 it doesn't matter since I am either playing around or wasting time ( I find very little reason to use them).
My point is that your sequencer is too important to let someone make the choice for you.
Try to find a way to spend some time with them to see what you think, or just play it safe and go with the MPC and find a SP12 cheap later on.
The MPC covers a lot more ground.

To answer skala's question, to take a long sample and cut it up on different pads on the 60, you have to copy it using the copy zone feature. you set the zone for the chop you want, then copy it and paste it to a small sample of silence, edit the silence out, then do it again for as many chops as you want.

Not sure how the 950 does it, but once you cut up the sample you should be able to assign them to separate keys / pads.

In short, the issue is that the Swing functions on the MPC and the SP work two different ways. On the MPC, the Swing effects every second 16th note....and on the SP, the Swing effects every second 8th note. So in order for the SP to work like the MPC, you gotta double the tempo, and in turn double your sequence/segment length. It is necessary to do this in order to use the Swing function on a swung hiphop type beat (aka halftime shuffle.)

That's actually what I thought you meant, but I didn't see anything lo-fi said that was in disagreement with it. I didn't understand what he "stood corrected" about. I asked beacause it's likely I might have misundertood something. Thanks for your answer.

iMack, I just don't think you should compare the SP to the 60, they are just so different.

I'm not trying to compare them to see which one is "better", but by asking these questions I feel like there will be less unpleasant surprises. Everything I read here helps me...

My point is that your sequencer is too important to let someone make the choice for you.

I agree, but doesn't it make sense to ask people with experience before I buy anything?

iMack wrote:In short, the issue is that the Swing functions on the MPC and the SP work two different ways. On the MPC, the Swing effects every second 16th note....and on the SP, the Swing effects every second 8th note. So in order for the SP to work like the MPC, you gotta double the tempo, and in turn double your sequence/segment length. It is necessary to do this in order to use the Swing function on a swung hiphop type beat (aka halftime shuffle.)

That's actually what I thought you meant, but I didn't see anything lo-fi said that was in disagreement with it. I didn't understand what he "stood corrected" about. I asked beacause it's likely I might have misundertood something. Thanks for your answer.

I was saying a beat at 95bpm with autocorrect set to 16th notes sounds the same as that beat at 190bpm with autocorrect set to 8th notes - this would allow Itchy to use normal BPM (for syncing to PT etc.), and still get the swing. All he'd have to do is change the autocorrect setting from 8th to 16th and he'd be set... This would have been true if the A.C. setting affected the swing resolution, like it does on the MPC.

But it turns out it doesn't work that way on the SP. I tried it this afternoon, and the 95bpm beat with A.C. set to 16th still had 8th note swing on it. Apparently, on the SP the autocorrect doesn't affect the swing; the swing is always 8th note swing (moving every second 8th note), so the only way to get 16th note swing (moving every second 16th note, that typical swing, the swing you want), is to run the machine at double time.

Quick recap:
a) 8th note swing at 190bpm is the same thing as 16th note swing at 95bpm.

b) contrary to what I thought, the only swing available on the SP is 8th note swing. Changing auto correct to 16th notes doesn't affect the swing resolution.

itchyvinyl wrote:By the way, you said you ALWAYS run the SP at double tempo. I'm curious, do you do that just to get a higher sequencer resolution?

No, do it to get that swing. I run the MPC at double time also, because it's synced to the SP.

Thanks a lot for explaining it to me.

anyone looking for user advice on the 60 should read the reviews at harmony central, some of the stuff they say is wrong (one guy mentions filters ) but the way they rave about the sequencer and the ease of use due to the layout is pretty much how I and many others feel.

yo thanks for the reply elma.

iMack wrote:I agree, but doesn't it make sense to ask people with experience before I buy anything?

Not without knowing what type of music they do or their setup.
If their needs are different, then their requirements are different thus their perspective.

I ended up getting a fully upgraded MPC-60ll and S950.

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinion.

where did u get it from imack... how much did you pay?

I paid $950 for both. I got them from a guy who was upgrading to MPC4000.

jeebus! what a steal! good come up! fully loaded, plus a stock? s950. patience is a muhfugah.