Replaying samples with no music theory training...

simcity wrote:
BTW, Arnold Schoenberg devised the twelve tone method, not Shoringburd or something.

umm thats who i ment, i obviously spelled the name wrong, no need to get finicky..............

MAn again we can sit here and agrue till we are blue in the face man


IT COMES down to this, YOU EITHER GOT IT or YOU DONT

PERIOD

I would love to hear some of these folks beats who are talking this theory stufff.

class.....

mwalker wrote:when i started study music it open musical doors that i never knew existed. yes, i was playing 5, 7 , 9, 11 stroke rolls and did not know that i was playing them. but after studying different techniques "my" playing level increased 100 fold.

and this is why i agree with you that it is important and useful to learn theory, and in fact why i plan to learn it as soon as possible.

it also comes down to each individual person taking pride in the method they use themselves. my parents NEVER pushed music on me. they kept me out of school music programs. now i'm 19 and consider myself a decent self taught bassist on the mpc. drummers have come over and amazedly exclaimed that i practice my rudiments on the 1k even though i have no clue what rudiments are.

i certainly wish now that my parents urged piano. god, how i wish it.

at the same time, though, i'm glad that i get to learn now, so the loose ends in my head are allowed to get tied together AFTER i got committed to music making rather than before - because being faced with a world of complex theory at a young age may have disillusioned me.

when i first bootlegged acid pro 2.0 and started making beats ( i never touched fruity loops) i didn't know what doors i had opened. i only knew that they only let me explore rooms with another set of double doors.

chaos theory at work.

mwalker, you're a real cool guy and you know your shit. peace.

Is it just me or does everybody keep agreeing with each other and then proceed to make their argument?



Great thread, proceed.........

Ok just to prove my point i uploaded one of my beats (bach scale)

http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3 ... 94845&q=Lo
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3 ... 94845&q=Hi

This beat contains me playing standard C minor bach scale on the piano(its actually a riff from bachs solfengetto in C minor(no samples). Please forgive the mix, the beat is quite old and unfinished. (its on my soundclick page)

Ok my point is this, we all know the theory behind this scale that im playing. WE all know that towards the end of the beat I transitition to an A minor breakdown and that im using 16 note riffs of the C minor scale.

But how many people could have actually composed the melody from this. I mean this is a pretty standard scale, but I took it added a guitar melody bassline strings etc… All from that scale. I wasn’t thinking about theory at all when I did that.

This scale is pretty standard stuff for most classical pianist, but I doubt most of my collegues would have had the creativity to hear this scale, play it , and say… Ohh I think im going to make a hip hop beat out of this. Despite their expertise in theory, most of them would not have had to creativity to do anything with it.

that’s my point, theory dosent matter if you AINT GOT THE CREATIVITY.

FYI- I am not trying to tute my own horn with this beat, its actually in my throw away bin, I know im not the best producer in the world, I just posted this to prove my point

Class…

classic,

i would love to personally meet you man. you are one of the top beatmaker/producers/musician on this forum. f*ck that i think you have talent anywhere you go not just the this forum. by the way the beat was very nice. also, you can tute your own horn because the beat is nice.

now, you explained exactly what you did, right? that is theory. whether you sit there and said "well i going to use this or that" the theory behind the beat is there even though it happen naturally. theory is how musician talk to each other. just how spanish people talk spanish to each other.

classic said :

"This scale is pretty standard stuff for most classical pianist, but I doubt most of my collegues would have had the creativity to hear this scale, play it , and say… Ohh I think im going to make a hip hop beat out of this. Despite their expertise in theory, most of them would not have had to creativity to do anything with it.

that’s my point, theory dosent matter if you AINT GOT THE CREATIVITY. "


i do agree, but you have validated my point. just because you have mpc, fruity loops, etc does not make you a producer/beatmaker etc. there is skill(s) involved. i feel if you do not have "CREATIVITY" you should not buy any musical equiment. period (play basketball). this may sound rude but making music is like joining a club. also, in making that beat you have shown us your musical knowledge (i know you hate this word but theory). and yes it is "CREATIVE"
and over allot of individuals heads in this forum but it shows that you do have (i know you hate it) a music theory background. sorry, but it sound like you know what you are doing musically and can discuss it.

when i play the drum i do not think that hey i going to play a flam-tap followed by a flam-triplet but i know thru study the flam-tap and flam-triplet work hand in hand. so i am at the point where my musically studies are part of my musically fabric, same as you classic. whether you think about it or not it is still there.



that is a nice beat because the melody is still in my head.

not to tute my own horn i feel i could duplicate that beat in about 15 mins and also play the lead riff backwards because of theory (piano, drums, congas, strings, etc). i am not comparing my skill with yours or saying i am a better musician or anything like that. this is just a discussion we are having.

i feel this is a very healthy discussion because it does show individuals that you must have talent to really get down in this business.

classic if you ever come up north you must stop at the neverenoughfunk studio. that is a must. first we will go a few rounds (just kidding) and then we will sit down make some music.

Thanks for the love man,

Again we will have to agree to disagree on thisone casue while the orginal scale may have been creatied using theory. THe actually melodoy and chourd progession were not. IT just happend naturally. I still belive that someone with all the training in the world and no creativity would no have been able to do that.

but again this is just my perspective....

class....

FYI currnetly i live in a baltimore finishing my masters degree in computer science.

yo classic, that is only 2.5 hours away from me. we must get together. there are allot of nice musicians in b-more.

p.s. when/if you come north or we meet half way or whatever bring a dozen crabcake sandwichs with tartar on a kasier roll. peace man and good work and good luck with your degree. it is allways good to have something to fall back on. you know there is a relationship between math/computers/music. most people who are good in math are good in computer and music. it is good to see that you are handling your business but we still need to get together. fyi, i went to morgan state and got a degree in math and a masters in finance at nyu.

Thats cool man, actually this summer i will be moving to brooklyn and working in manhattan for Jp morgan, I dont know how far u are from NY but im definaly up to making connections with all types of folks

ahh u went to morgan, I chill with my frat brothers(sigma) overtheir all the timeI was acutally there yesterday for a party

Be easy

class...