Article - Establishing Your Mix

good read, thanks

dubmunkey wrote:SPECIALLY when the increment is less than
3db. Even a choice engineer, if you didn't warn him,
couldn't discern a 2db change on one
track from mix to mix.
????????????????????

not true- otherwise they would do bass up, bass down, vocal up and vocal down mixes where everything staye the same but the bass or vocal gets boosted/reduced by 1db

id use that ref for real bands and definitly never use 0.7 for my kick- no headroom for anything else!! when mixing i start wiyth my kick at -6, build and balanavce around that and if my track aint hitting between -3 and 0 after that ill go back and boost everything a notch

greg

Confused... are you saying people DON'T do bass up/ vox up, etc
mixes with one decible cuts or boosts on the given track? Or that this
is common practice? Cus that would prove my point. You give someone
a "vox up" mix where the only thing different is that the main vocal was
turned up One decible or less and they gonna ask why you
gave them the same mix. Plus everything has a diferent reference point.
You start your kick at -6db on ...what machine? -6 on your MPC ain't
negative 6 on an SSL, ain't -6 on a Neve or Protools, or anything for that matter. Specially when you talkin gless than 3db, increments from room to room depending on the board/DAW, monitors, etc. are impossible to calculate. Mixing by numbers works with frequency range, or with volume when you take notes on your own system, for example. But to tell someone else to cut or boost one decibel is like asking them to drive a mack truck for one inch. Not to take away from the valuable information
in the original post, that stuff is great tho...

Confused... are you saying people DON'T do bass up/ vox up, etc
mixes with one decible cuts or boosts on the given track? Or that this
is common practice? Cus that would prove my point. You give someone
a "vox up" mix where the only thing different is that the main vocal was
turned up One decible or less and they gonna ask why you
gave them the same mix.
>>>>>>>>>>>

pros wont- we may not able to hear differences but pros in charge of releasing to the masses often expect a vocal up and vocal down mix- at least mixing engineers often provide them- therefore they must be able to hear the differences

>>>>>>>>>>

Plus everything has a diferent reference point.
You start your kick at -6db on ...what machine? -6 on your MPC ain't
negative 6 on an SSL, ain't -6 on a Neve or Protools, or anything for that matter. Specially when you talkin gless than 3db, increments from room to room depending on the board/DAW, monitors, etc. are impossible to calculate. Mixing by numbers works with frequency range, or with volume when you take notes on your own system, for example. But to tell someone else to cut or boost one decibel is like asking them to drive a mack truck for one inch. Not to take away from the valuable information
in the original post, that stuff is great tho...
>>>>>>>>>>

well actually these are universal reference points- depends whether yopu are working in +4db or -10db; either way provided everything has been set up right 0 db is the same as 0 db on another properly set up mixer- otherwise there would be no point in having references...

and again talking about the truck reference 1 db isn't as subtle as you think- in a well balanced mix peaking just below 0 db but where most of the meat is between 9-6 db a 1 db boost on any main element is pretty noticeble to pros....

i didnt recommend any of my settings to anyone else just what i use, those who dont understand properly need not follow it


greg

The last mixing job I did we spent weeks tweaking different sections of everysong by doing +/- 1, 2, and 4 dB, the crazy thing was most of the time +/- 1dB made all the difference, you couldn't hear it on the individual track as much as in the whole arrangement, where everything would just sit much better.

Ok, I won't try to desuede you from thinking that a 1db cut or boost is going to matter. I'll just say that if it makes that big a difference, and you are not mixing at 192k, then maybe it wasn't recorded properly in the first place. I am also meticulous, and make infinately minute corrections all the time. I won't even try to say I don't tweak endlessly in these tiny decibel ranges. But I'll say for the record, "the pros" who I work with tell me to not think so hard about 1db cuts and boosts, cus they are not important, and that's why I'm conveying it to you. I just felt that concentrating so much convo on what so-and-so starts their kickdrum at (which is a personal choice and should not be considered a standard in engineering) is not the point of the very informative information in the original post.
And yes, gregmonkey is correct. There are universal i/o levels as a professional standard. But guess what? Even if you bust your ass callibrating everything, people who listen at the end don't use any of our gear. Your testing on a boom box, a car, what have you, where alot of superfluous stuff you thought was sooooo important to your mix is gonna fall away completely. That being said, it's whatever sounds good. If that is the way you get it to sound great, by all means, that's what you should do.

I hear you TruPro, I think it is just a good starting point for cats that don't really have a place to start with their mixes. It's probably something that you do automatically now, but some people need to get their bearings before they can freestyle. And you're right, all that calibration tends to be for compatability with other systems, as long as your master readout is accurate, you should be fine.

I don't think 1 db can make a huge difference, but it is as you say, you make slight corrections all the time, particularly with dynamic mixes. It wasn't at 192, but it was 96, so maybe that's why.

hey i didnt say i think that but i said its something pros do- damn read this properly dude and then we wont disagree about something no one actually said...

greg

[quote="elmacaco"]I hear you TruPro, I think it is just a good starting point for cats that don't really have a place to start with their mixes. It's probably something that you do automatically now, but some people need to get their bearings before they can freestyle. And you're right, all that calibration tends to be for compatability with other systems, as long as your master readout is accurate, you should be fine.
quote]

Word! I'm pissed that I read so much stuff on mixing but it left out this important fact! It's changed everything for me. Only inadequate authors and teachers make light of the "easy" stuff Cuz they've decided it's unimportant.

yeah, starting with all faders down and raising each one at a time made mixing a whole lot quicker for me.

i only use a ref of say -6 for my kicks so i can build a track round it have it hot as poss but not clip when i record....thats for house music though where the kick is huge....def differs between genre and even song...

greg

Word up. Def. feeling the all faders down starting point, which I practice religiously...

Yo Trupro, any other religious observances that you want to kick down would be appreciated too!!

just more personal steeze. Like even tho I do a certian thing all the time,
it's really personal preference, like he was saying about the starting points for kicks, etc. For instance, I always start a mix of with the kick, then snare, then hats then percusion, then bass, then lead instrument, etc.
When I get to vox, I get those to sound bangin by themselves, then pop the rest in and see where it sits. These are standard, but there are some people who start with the vocal. Like the dude said, I'm in rhythm-heavy music, so I start there, but again, personal preference.
I read this eq article where they were saying its great to have really set ways to do every step, so it becomes second nature, especially if you have clients. Then, once in a while, you throw yourself a curveball, and do it totally disconnected, in a way you would never do it. Maybe not on your client's cash, but when you have time. Like, F yourself up a little to keep it fresh. I guess that's pretty widely practiced as well. My only unmoveable scientific rule that I won't let anyone dispute is...if it sounds good, it is good! hahahaha!

thanks nano this really helped me