is pro-tools over rated?

[quote="trupro"]. It's not a conspiracy agains drum&bass producers who don't have any cash, quote]

What does that mean? Who u referring too. I can tell u about a few that have hella cash

M Walker, you are definately the man, but hell no will I get sucked into
a battle of infinate nitpickery by detailing any of my gear for you, hahahah!
Don't let em get at you tho, you got it!

it is not about you and i nitpicking over your gear or my gear. i am just learning from other individuals thoughts. this is not a cubase -vs- pro-tool thread either. i am not trying to compare your setup with mine. i am happy with who i am musicially. musically i am not in competition with anyone but myself because i truely believe "the best is yet to be born". i am not in the same class as billy cobham, lenny white, steve gadd but i would sit down and play a set right after them with no problems at all because i am confident in my musical skills. if you like pro-tools that is cool. if you like pro tracks, live4, cubase, sonar, logic, band in a box, jammer, fruity loops or acid pro that is cool too but again "in my opinion i think pro-tools is over rated" even tho it is the "industry standard".

p.s. i agree to disagree

Bravo, I am speaking about particular cat's I know, not aphex twin. The
fact is, protools is rather rutimentary to a seasoned D&B or heavy electronica producer. Many may dump comps to PT, but alot of these dudes use Cubase or logic, and may clock an MPC or many, many other pieces of hardware to the CPU. But many who follow that scene and are very new to it seem to use this as an excuse to claim that other's are somehow bieng swindled by Digidesign. Is it overpriced for what it does? Probably, but I think cubase is too. I will not have someone sway me by telling me they are using the on-board sound input on thier laptop, running a stolen version of Cubase SX, and quote: "my shit sounds great!"
Yeah, it might, but I ain't gonna tell a rapper that he hears two of himself due to latency because I followed bad advice. Walker, you way too serious. Like you said, it is definately personal preference.
And for the record, yes, the 002 is not worth the $2600 you pay for it, but I still recomend them. And no, I don't use one in my studio.
don't know what else you can say man...everything that's the most popular IS overrated, don't you get it? Being on top means you get to be overated into the ground!

Fairplay....

On a seperate note, what I notice (here especially), is that people think protools can save the day, When it aint like that. I aint gonna bother get involved in the this that or the other arguement but I think very few understand what a soft seq/multi track program really is.

I have recently been exposed to the fact that most of the flak against PT (besides the price) is because people don't really know how to use it properly. It is better to have some sort of standard rather than some war of logic vs. cubase vs sonar vs DP4 etc.

At the end of the day, we're just making music, the finer points are important to users, but whatever you have you should just learn to use it as best you can.

Trupro, Lol at this! so true!

[quote]I will not have someone sway me by telling me they are using the on-board sound input on thier laptop, running a stolen version of Cubase SX, and quote: "my **** sounds great!"
Yeah, it might, but I ain't gonna tell a rapper that he hears two of himself due to latency because I followed bad advice.[/quote]

is that people think protools can save the day, When it aint like that.

thanks Bravo, this is exactly what i am trying to say/could not have said it better.

trupro, not the fact of being too serious but there are about 1,000,000 beatmakers born everyday that do not have a clue about what they are doing/ how are they going to do it, etc.

example: i just brought a mpc, motif and triton, whatelse do i need to set it up to make "hot" hip-hop beats?

these newbie hear that pro-tools is the "industry standard" and they must have it because it is the standard is b*llSh!t.

i feel the talent comes first. i does not matter what you use (software or hardware, pro-tools or logic, mac or pc).

just go to soundclick, take a listen and you will see what i mean. the mpc, motif, triton, pro-tools/cubase/logic/dp/etc does not make a difference.

the only thing that can save the day is talent and not protools.

p.s. when you talk about tools my 4th grade desk had the best sound i ever heard (this is true). i wish i could find it and sample it. i use to get sent to the princple office for drumming on it all the time but i use to play some bad azz beats on that mutha f*cker.

It is better to have some sort of standard rather than some war of logic vs. cubase vs sonar vs DP4 etc.

very true, but i feel you should have the talent/skills to apprieciate/utilitize the "standard" and not just own it.

All very important points yall bring up. Bravo is dead right;
ProTools is not gonna save the day, especially if someone is
bad at what they trying to do, or very new at it.
People ask me, "How is reason, how is PT, how is such and
such?" I just feel like, you gonna get there if you
want to make music, and all the major software pretty much do the
same thing. Yeah, Walk, the game is way oversaturated
with people that call themselves 'producers'
and they are really just fans of a particular
genre that can make beats to varying degrees.
It's very depressing sometimes. And then again
that's what makes the good stuff even better.
The more common something
is, the less valuable it is, and the other way around, too.

I keep going back to that mackie ad that's out in the
production magazines right now. Just has a picture of
a laptop and says: "If your music sucks, it will still suck.
You'll just make it alot faster." So appropriate for
the digital age.

the game is way oversaturated
with people that call themselves 'producers'
and they are really just fans of a particular
genre that can make beats to varying degrees.
It's very depressing sometimes.

it is depressing. we are getting to the point where the individuals/beatmakers/producers that are getting "paid"
are not that good anymore.

It's because musicians are not in charge anymore, the heads of musical corporations are MBA's, not musicians. Man, I never thought I'd back up tommy mottola!

I read a book on the making of Kind of Blue and the head of CBS records was it? He was a musician, the CEO would come down and watch them jam and just hang like a muso. Making decisions based on the music not on beancounters. And yet, they still made a mint on that record, so it's not like you need the money men in charge, but now every industry is like that, whatever they make is secondary to providing dividends to stockholders, so you don;t have car people making cars, or musicians making music, you have these business men, and they will stunt the competition needed to make capitalism work right just to make their buck. That'sa why it pisses me off when I hear X artist gets shelved, they don't want to compete with their own crap,. well if it was good, it wouldn't matter, people would buy it. All this crap makes downloading even more of a problem.

pro tools is easier to use than cooledit I think...


it's the little things mostly, but the ability to record a song at home, and take it to the "Big Studio"... where all they have to do is post production is a time saver which is a $ saver...


also the "Big Studio" may not have an HD system...they might be working of a digi...which is not to shit on the digi, but just b/c they've got alot of gear doesn't mean they're gonna spend the 10g's on and HD system when it's over kill...

I have a 001, and have used an HD system...the HD system is over rated if you're not scoring films or some sh*t, b/c I just can't see needing it all...PT le has like 24-32 tracks which is plenty for hip hop at least

there's definitely a prestige factor in using protools...it's an image driven industry, and the production starts from point A and runs thru point ZZ

add it to the list of what you hate about music, and decide if you still like it enough to do it...as of now I still do

i tend to find people that "learned" on pro tools, love pro tools, people that learned on something else hate pro tools. personally i think logic is as good as it gets as far as home recording software, but pt tdm blows everything else i've ever used out of the water. and like so many other people have said, its the seemless integration between protools le and tdm that makes me want to own an le system. sure you can import wavs from cubase into a tdm system, but are you really going to want to spend that time when you're paying anywhere from $200-$500 an hour. i wouldn't

it only takes less then 10 minutes to load maybe 30 "5 minute" long WAV tracks into Pro Tools from a CD

Just to put things in perspective, a lot of producers and studio's just bought ProTools for the hardware 10 years ago. At that time the TDM systems were simply superior to any other system when it came to recording audio (low latency, dsp). Most of them didn't even use the software, and ran Logic or Digital Performer as a sequencer.

Since then PT has evolved into a very capable sequencer on par with Logic, DP and Cubase. If you could only run it without the hardware i'd even consider buying it.

I know that being closed ended is a strike in Digidesign's corner, too.
I don't knock em tho, cause they knew from get:
everyone's gonna steal software anyway, so why sell
software that can utilize any interface the person wants?
So, they made their software work only with the configuration they
built, to a) keep people from F ing up with
jury-rigged soundcards, making it imposible for them
to support professional customers and
b) to actually make money off of
a product they are selling...which alot of bit-torrent users
and mp3 thieves don't understand. Just because something
exists doesn't mean you can just have it.
Nor does it mean I will try to make you use it.

trupro, you've spoken a lot of truth in this thread