Is this thing on? wrote:Loops are for the untalented. The only reason people used loops in the first place was because of insuficient memory in the first samplers that came out. There is no excuse these days. I love drum programing.. just check out a few of my tracks I have posted @.. www.myspace.com/threshed
WOAH! You mean you're better at programming a drum loop than Krupa, Stubbfield, etc, etc, are at playing the drums? Jeez, you must be sh!t hot at hitting those pads fella! 
PS believe it or not, you can actually do both. 
1:
Obviosely you havn't read the post at the top of this page. (page number 2)
And when im refering to untalented people im not talking about the the drummers or original artists. I am refering to the people that can't improve or embelish on what was originaly created by those artists in a way that makes the notation original in its expression in reguards to the person that has re-issued it.
Lets go ahead and define a few things for you guys too. There seems to be a little confusion as of what the words loop and break mean and how they are different.
A loop(s) is or are repeated phrases within a composition. Hence the use of the term loop, that denotes a circular or repetative proccess.
A break is a drum phrase of audio that can be contained within a loop but is not a loop.
(this applys to any audio phrase)
I guese these terms have seemed to loose thier seperation with the over use of looping phrases.
2: In response the next two quotes.
Blue Haze wrote:
To make this simple major useage of drum machines, samplers, sequencers and etc were started by djs using these gears to extend, recreate and remix records from 1975 til now. Most traditional musicians had no vision of their usage unless they were on some experimental msuic or they work with an unquie engineer or producer at the time. These djs were not classically trained musicians creating their own loops from scratch and making records. These djs started a new context of sound making music from records which was predicted to happen since 1948 by a forward thinking musicologist that electronic music would move this way.
Give props to Cool Herc who was a major part of this new music along with other just doing it on the turntables, the next generation Marly Marl, Flash, and others incorporating the technology to extend the boundaries of the style, and big props, to the sound providers of today to many mofos to name but more than likely their music influenced alot of people to pick up their mpcs.
elmacaco wrote:I usually don't use loops but I've been trying to and I think strictly sample based production is harder to do at a high level than regular composition.
Looping is just an extention of the DJ, you can loop a part of a song and put other drums on it and some different breakdowns without having 12 turnatables and Shiva on hand to work them all. many people use their MPC as an extention of the turntable for DJ purposes, and THAT is hip hop. Everyone else doing it like a musician is playin Elvis, hip hop is the turntable and the DJ, that's why it's about using someone else's music, cuz that's how it started and even at it's height it was like that, ill loops with a little flavor added, like scratches or what not. Steal, write on walls, sample loops, it's a DJ thing and that's alright. that's the challenge.
Yes.. the people who made these techniques were limited to their beat crafting by turntables which makes "them" inovators for thier methods. And it's still the fkn shioat! that they did this and these techniques are still amazing in "thier right" in reguards to the originators. But we are no longer limited by the turntable. We all use the MPC. So my point is: Why not improve upon the music with the technology, and if you aren't improving upon the music with your mpc, why even own one? Just sell it and get another turntable. Why are you bent on reproducing what somebody else did with lesser functional technology, when you use the MPC that is capable of alot more than repeating a phrase. The originators were not lazy by any means. They used thier technology to its full potential and your not giving them any respect by emulating what they did with turntables by looping in an MPC (i higher functional piece of technology). You should follow by thier example of geniose and inovation by pushing the boundries of your technology instead of emulating and spreading mediocrity. Doing so will only bring you and your music the respect it would deserve for staying true to what it realy is about: your inovation and self expression, aswell as its method (not somebody elses).
3.
Blue Haze wrote:Repetitiveness is a vibe, part of the core of our very existence. We inhale, exhale, and inhale again. This is a basic universal part of the human condition. Patterns are so important to our brains that we conjure them up when none are present. These musical patterns can have a powerful effect on our minds and bodies. Like Buddhist chanting or raves leads to an blissful or hypnotic mindset. It serves like a tribal drumming helping participants join together and reach a higher mental or emotional level.
Of course repetition can lead to monotony and boredom to sustain listeners`s interest depends on variation and development by changing patterns, layering a free melodic part and most important the lyrics.
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I know.. ive actualy done this with the tribe on several occasions. But the part your missing is how its always the same "but different". The only thing that remains the same is the rhythm.. the timing that the patterns are based on (even when the scale fluctuates). So it's obviose that the repetition of a phrase isn't what causes a enlightend state.. it's in understanding that the ryhthm is a repatitious basis and origin for a constantly changing pattern that may look to be the same but to keen senses is always as beautifull and new as the last individual and amazing phrase within the cyclic rhythm.
Thats what makes the change of notation in classical music, the cascading delays in dub, and the permutating drum rolls of idm, experimental, and other forms of drum based music such wonderfull and amazing spirals just as the ones we are imersed in. Just as your heart is the ryhthm for your world and your world is constantly changing upon its pulse. There is nothing more expresive than that. So shouldnt your music resemble the most expressive nature of all.. LIFE
Blue Haze wrote:Take a word of advice you can`t change people just as nobody can change you. To have a discussion needs that you will always have someone with a different point of view. Another thing opinion isn`t a fact and if you are tired of a certain sound or style just turn it off or listen to something else. But to rant or to be judgemental of someone else or a entire genre of music makes no sense just being argumentive.
Very true. But what I am doing by taking an argumentative aproach is creating an issue.
Issues shape and change an environment. And in turn environments change and shape people. Im not trying to make change by just ignoring what I dont like. I take my life head on. Unfortunately all I have to use is an opinionand these words.. but I know my opinion to be based on a few universal truths that are beyond me as a person. So to those of you who think life is as repatative as a loop.. your missing the point. Life is the articulation of change.. always the same but different... In a way im tempted take your advice Blue Haze. By starting a thread that depicts how to advance your technique as far as sample based production in the form of the drum goes, so I can offer a path instead causing people to evaluate thier ignorance by noticing thier anger. But for right now im exploiting the option I have noticed causes the ones that have to potential to self evaluate and progress themselves to venture into the unknown and face thier discomfort.
Love and Respect.. ONE BEAT!
